Discussing GC issues with DP.

Trans is the modern eating disorders in teenagers. God knows what it will be next.

"The current attitude towards trans kids is how people treated gay youth 30 years ago."

Wow, so 30 years ago society was also worried about gender stereotypes getting even more entrenched in children; gay and autistic children being sterilised and pushed towards sex-changes en-masse (increasing in girls over 4000% in just a few years), with social contagion through the internet a big factor? Amazing! History really does repeat itself!

Medical transition means sterility and a loss of sexual function. Can't imagine many LGB people signing up for that, Dakinis. Have you heard gay men talking about how much they love dick?

Child transition is going to end up a far bigger scandal than Thalidomide or lobotomy. What is being done to these kids, particularly in America, where girls are being given double mastectomies long before they're old enough to buy a beer, is downright wicked.

I thank God for the far more cautious approach of the NHS, though even here kids too young to drive are being allowed to medically transition.

Transgender is nothing like being gay. Trans ideology is homophobia on steroids, ffs. Having to become a lifelong medical patient, having the grave side effects of years on very toxic drugs, being left with a small child's penis or losing 10 IQ points (both side effects of supposedly harmless puberty blockers): none of these spell being your true, authentic self to me.

I have a niece currently in a residential eating disorders unit. No one is pretending that her life threatening condition needs endorsing. The girls with multiple MH issues, with autism or a history of abuse don't need hormones. They need support and intensive talking therapy to come to terms with themselves.

A high degree of distress about our sex and our changing bodies is normal for teenage girls. This is a new variation on bulimia or cutting. It's important to get the girls safely through this acute distress without any permanent harm.

Evidence suggests that about 90% of "trans" kids desist and that the majority are not trans, but LGB. Medical transition is a form of conversion therapy. The tiny number who may still wish to transition can do so as adults.

I dont think Lucy would meet the age limit maybe when she grows up a little... Canadian Stephoknee is a bit older isn't she - maybe she fancies a part time job?

Ask him if David Challoner (sp) had decided to be “Lucy” full time and apply to be a guide leader (which under their new guidelines he now could), would he be happy with his daughters going to guidecamp under their supervision?

Dakinis - you do realise that todays gay kids are being told that they have been born in wrong body but can magically 'become a girl/boy'. Let alone the heterosexual kids who dont happen to conform to society-constructed gender stereotypes? We are being told to parrot 'trans women are women' and 'women have a lady penis' (by which they dont mean someone born a wan who has had surgery to form a pseudo or is out of other body parts).

Mtf are very vocal but ftm are almost invisible - why is that? When the majority of kids at gender clinics are girls - why is this happening now?

I was one of those gay kids 30 years ago. Encountered no pearl clutching or really anyone who was bothered. Belonged to an LGB group (as it was then) of teenagers and young adults who all got along, including the transsexual members, welcomed everyone and took care of everyone, especially the new and scared. Very little politicking. The actual issues were the more feminine guys who were picked on by other men (toxic masculinity), jobs where you needed to not let people find out you were gay, and no legal rights recognised with your partner. That was discrimination in law, lesser rights than others had, withheld solely due to being gay. Those thankfully have all been righted.

Its ridiculous to equate transgenderism to homosexuality and I actually find it very offensive since transgenderism is by far, in extreme, the most direct and serious homophobia I've ever experienced in my life as a lesbian.

we have their best interests and safety very much at heart.

This is exactly what my church leader used to say who was a big fan of gay conversion therapy.

It all depends on your view of 'best interests' and 'safety'

Does your DP realise that most trans women/trans girls describe themselves as lesbians, i.e. they are sexually attracted to women/girls?

I think a lot of men still have this idea that any man who presents as at all feminine must be gay, and since trans women (try to) present as totally female, they are obviously gay (along the lines of most drag queens) and therefore present no sexual threat to women.

As most of us on here now realise, this is not the case at all - the teenage trans girl who could be sharing a dormitory with any of our teenage daughters is most likely physically male, sexually attracted to girls and with all the teenage hormones making them as randy as any other teenage boy, so most definitely a potential threat.

I never said being trans and being gay were the same, I said the negative attitudes towards trans kids is the same as gay kids were treated 30 years ago.

You won't find "negative atittudes" towards trans kids on here - quite the reverse, we have their best interests and safety very much at heart.

You need also to remember that a fair number of women posting on here were those "gay kids" of 30 (more, in my case) years ago and we know perfectly well that there is a massive difference, because the two are not the same at all.

RiverTam I never said being trans and being gay were the same, I said the negative attitudes towards trans kids is the same as gay kids were treated 30 years ago.
There was plenty of pearl clutching about poor innocent boys and girls being violated by disgusting perverts. I even remember it being debated on Radio 4.

Dakanis remind me of how being gay means taking untested medication that can render you sterile, surgically removing healthy body parts etc? No? That’s because it’s not the same, not a bit, and you bloody know it.

OP, I find it concerning that your DP seems to have so little regard to safeguarding yet works with vulnerable young people.

I had this exact problem with my DH. He would cringe just hearing me question the trans activist ideology, and would shut me down every time. But I persevered with talking about it even though it would end in a row every time (very unusual for us).

Last week he amazed me by pulling someone on twitter up for their use of the word "terf" and then arguing the gender critical viewpoint. I could have wept with joy.

I've always thought of him as a feminist, so it was a real eye-opener for me to see how little he cared about this issue because, let's face it, it doesn't really affect him.

I'm with your DP. The current attitude towards trans kids is how people treated gay youth 30 years ago.

Op how is it going? Did you manage to get him to listen?

The only people I have met who have been pro self Id have been ME men. One (A) a righ-on Corbynista and the other (B) a 'let it all hang out' artsy, trendy ladies man.

I might just ask A if, as a Muslim, he'd be happy for his little girls to be in changing rooms with men or compete against boys in gymnastics, and B if he would sleep with one, or be bothered if his (religious) mum and (religious) sister couldn't refuse Bernard Blessed in a female nurses outfit offering to do their smear teat.

The problem I have found in talking to people in real life is that I have been aware of this issue since the Swim England debacle which I think I noticed around March this year, so have learnt loads of things and know lots of names. Once I start talking about it I can't stop and I perhaps need to rein it in a bit because I am risking overloading people with too much info.

Here's a thing though - I was talking about the unfairness of sports with my 13 year old DS and he said ' well, there needs to be men's, women's and trans sports then'
How sensible, if only that third option could be applied across the board

Persevere however annoying he is. We've had awful fights over this and even in the last two weeks my OH has made a comment that I was obsessed. He could see there was a problem but wouldn't accept it was that much of a problem in RL and didn't understand my concern as we have boys and it was unlikely to ever affect me. Even explaining exactly how it would affect me didn't seem to get through. He was repulsed by the Challenor case and didn't really want to hear the drip drip of revelations I relayed after AC & Green Party involvement (that was the obsessed comment) but he came back from work after a conversation with a more senior manager that had strayed onto the problem of trans violence towards women and OH commented that his colleague knew there was a problem with trans attitudes towards women hadn't heard about the AC & Green Party link so he'd provided an update.
Whilst I resent it's taken so long and a conversation with another male to get him to this point it's progress. I've had much more success with my student DSs.

Ask him if he then accepts full and total responsibility for any incident involving your daughters within a TWAW paradigm, particularly formerly single sex spaces and facilities.

So if anything happens, it's his fault. He agreed with the position.

My (female) partner completely 'got' the issues, but I could see she was thinking I was winding myself up about it far too much - until I made her read the 'Fair play for women' stuff whilst I was away for a couple of days.

I came back to find her ranting, even angrier than I was and asking where she could get leaflets, etc because she was going to give them out in town, put up stickers, etc etc. She's shared the FPFW stuff with friends and is right on the campaign now.

I think choosing some appropriate material and asking him to read it might be a good idea.

It's the whole 'I don't see what you're making such a fuss about' brigade that piss me right off, along with the ones (and there are many women amongst them) who simply shout 'Bigot?' even when you explain that predatory men will exploit self-id and all women and girls will be at far greater risk.

A Stonewall thing popped up on my Facebook feed today. It featured a lesbian wearing some 'TWAW!' t-shirt and proclaiming the glories of being marvellously woke and not at all bigoted.

My DH doesn't really understand why I am getting so worked up about this issue because 1. He's male 2. We have sons but no daughters 3. The proposed changes to the law will have zero impact on him

But.. what was a bit of a light bulb moment for him was when I said 'what about if your mum needed intimate medical care when she's elderly and requested a female medic. If a Bernard Bresslaw lookalike turned up (showing my age, there!), she (and any other members of the family) would have no legal comeback to complain.'

PS I know that I have blatantly copied TransplantsArePlants 's idea with my new name

Lang

"If I divorce you, which at this rate I might, would your newly single dating profile say TW welcome for sexy times? If not, why not?"

Is what I'd say.

*They probably watch trans porn and need TWAW to be true because then they don’t have to confront their internalised homophobia.

We assume they have no dog in the fight, but I’m beginning to realise it’s not true.*

Added to this as Betty suggested on another thread and I've suspected for a while myself, many of them may be under the edges of the trans umbrella as cross dressers for example.

Presumably your partner loves you and cares for you so why would they dismiss what you have to say? Do you do that if it’s the other way around?

There’s many a thread on mn about a vast range of topics that involve women asking how they can phrase something so their male partner can’t dismiss them or minimise the issue or ignore them because they’re nagging or ranting or whatever. If they could only find the right words or the correct evidence, they would be listened to and heard. Is it worth wasting your time to come up with a killer argument when it can be dismissed simply because you’re not a man?