'Men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies'

I can't really engage with this because I can't use condoms. Something to do with my vagina's pH. No condom has ever survived an encounter with me, regardless of partner.

I gave my DSs the same talk as FermatsTheorem. I have seen the heartache caused when a baby is born to a couple who hardly know each other - and don't like each other either. Men should always take responsibility.

But for me contraception has never been a major problem. No significant side effects from the pill and I will always be grateful for the complete disappearance of my periods after the insertion of my Mirena IUD. Getting it in was a total bastard, though, which is why it's still in there years after I must've gone through the menopause.

Women have far more to lose than men when it comes to pregnancy. For example I suffer chronic pain from a pregnancy related back injury that happened 25 years ago.

I would trust a man to take hormonal contraception in a LTR, but I've been fairly promiscuous in my time and wouldn't be prepared to accept some attractive bit of mystery was on the pill on his say so. That's what strikes me as a a major problem with men using something you can't see or verify. Men are happy to do so partly because they still can just walk away.

I do think context is key - the societal context of women being passive in regards to sex, but expected to be the party in control when it comes to contraception.

When you think about it, THAT is the headfuck.

My impression is that she is accepting the dialogue that women are passive (don’t know what the Mormon attitude to sex is, but religions don’t tend to be particularly empowering towards women) but saying look is I accept that, then men must accept responsibility for contraception.

Ah yes. All those men with torn penises post baby who are being pressured into ‘performing’ by a woman who is physically stronger than them. Happens all the time.

But plenty of men feel under pressure to perform when they're not in the mood as well.

I agree with the statement that 100% unwanted pregnancies are men's fault.

By extension: 100% of pregnancies are caused by men and all pregnancies occur because a man has allowed it to happen.

@Batteriesallgone

And that's a whole issue in itself isn't it?

I guess we can also look at pressures on young girls, and boys to a lesser extent, to have sex because it is expected.

Many women will feel pressure, not just from their individual partner, but within a wider context.

All of that is wrong and needs addressing and somehow we need to find a way to empower girls and women to be true to themselves. To not accept pressure to conform.

But is that what this tweet is meaning?

In a way it feels like it's putting women down. Almost like we have no say, no power, no choice. Men will do what they want and our only hope is to educate men into looking after us better. I don't want a man to decide on my contraception. I'll decide that for myself.

That has always felt like a powerful place for me to be as a woman - that the choice to have a baby 100% lies with me.

Men and women should equally consent to sex

In reality though they don’t

My Facebook parenting groups are full of women post baby who are putting themselves through painful sex, ‘giving in’ to sex because of nagging, etc etc. They wouldn’t describe it as rape (I would, from their descriptions)

Recently I asked one women what her partner said about the fact she finds sex excruciating - she said she hasn’t told him as she doesn’t want to hurt his feelings (!!!)

Very often women ARE incredibly passive and have sex done to them. At least this is an attempt to get men to think about where the responsibility lies in such a dynamic.

When I first saw this thread I thought you were bonkers, then when I started reading the Twitter thread it was like 💡 -💡 -💡 - each page made a lightbulb go on! It makes so much sense.

To be fair, I have subtly broached the idea with my own teen DCs that there are other things you can do with a loved one that aren’t as risky as PIV. In fact DP and I have used the rhythm method (rarely PIV, only the day or two before my period starts - mainly other stuff the rest of the month) successfully for 6 years, as he is a condom refuser (tried first few times - was a flop!) and I refuse hormonal BC. More should be made of this I think, but while porn is so mainstream, men’s pleasure is even more centred than it ever was. Sadly the rise of popularity in anal may well be a crude attempt at BC.

I imagine she’s using the 100% thing for shock value / to get people talking

It definitely prompts a discussion about responsibilities etc.

I just wonder if the extreme example diminishes the argument some what?

As we all seem to agree, it's portraying women as passive, with no active role to play and that's rubbish.

but also that actually we should get to the point where they shouldn't need to have to negotiate this in the first place

I disagree with this. I think we should always negotiate the terms of a sexual relationship. Both parties should discuss and agree to what is going to happen.

I read this this morning. Came up on my feed as I'm a Mormon , I'm one way it was refreshing to have a view that wasn't typically Mormon and was a lot more open about sex than is typical. I didn't find myself agreeing though. Yes, I see the point and the roulette explanation a PP have helped. But, it's just too simplistic, I think I got hung up on he details. Women can get pregnant more than 2 days a month , women can get pregnant from pre-cum and a few others bits she said.

Yes, women can pleasure themselves and not get pregnant, but we still chose to engage in PIV sex, frankly men can pleasure themselves too without getting anyone pregnant, PIV sex is a mutual agree, least it should be. I personally don't like the feel of condoms but we still use them.

I guess I just don't see where this argument is leading ... so what is she saying, stop having PIV sex, or use a condom? So we use a condom mutually agreed, condom splits, whose fault is that? Or woman uses birth control, says it's ok we are protected and it fails.

Yes, man absolutely need to take more responsibility, but her stating it's 100% on them is ridiculous, it's not like we are passive participants in sex, least we shouldn't be.

Fermat that is exactly what I've said to my DS and he has, as far as I am aware, taken it to heart.

No Glove = No Love

And yes as far as I know the condom talk goes to both sex in school.

Thing is when you try to blame one side 100% you take away the ability of the other side to make grown up choices.

They BOTH wanted to play Russian Roulette to use the analogy upthred. She knew the chances and the consequences and she still told him to shoot. She can tell him not to shoot and put the gun away, she can put the safety lock on to stop the bullet escaping but she does (in a non abusive situation) have that right.

Woemn don't need patronising into being told its all the big man's fault and us little women shouldn't be held responsible for any choice we made

I disagree with the idea that men aren't usually made aware of their contraception responsibility.

Don’t get me wrong, in my analogy the women is still an idiot for playing the game.

But that doesn’t mean the man can just shrug his shoulders and say well, she consented, shit happens.

All the talk of irresponsible ejaculations makes it sound like men are walking around pudding trails of sperm which are impregnating any women who step in it.

Yes men should be more responsible, consequences ie financial should be more strongly enforced. But women aren't passive vessels awaiting boarding by the big captain!
Unwanted pregnancies are also caused by sex. Perhaps we should outlaw sex unless it is with the sole intention of procreation!

What I will be saying to DS is this:

You are responsible for your own contraception. If you do not want to become a father you must use condoms, every time, unless or until you are in a long term relationship where you trust your partner completely, and she satisfies you that she is happy to take on the burden of contraception for both of you.

If you do not use condoms, you are morally obliged to stand by the consequences of your actions, which may mean supporting your girlfriend/ex/one night stand in having an abortion, or may mean paying maintenance/being the most involved absentee father you can be if she decides to go ahead with the pregnancy. But if you try to just walk away from the situation, then you are a shit.

I think the argument is like this and forgive me the analogy.

Man and woman play a version of Russian roulette. The gun is pointed at the women’s head. Man has the gun. It’s loaded with all live bullets. It’s certain death. Women has a protective helmet. It works 90% of the time (let’s assume 3 fertile days in 30 for simplicity) but 10% of the time, they play and she dies.

They play. She dies.

It’s his fault for firing a gun he knew was live. He can say yes but I wanted to play the game!! She wanted to play the game!! We both consensually agreed to the fun risky game and both took the risk!

But we would still say - you fired a live gun and she died. That’s your fault. 100% you KNEW the gun was live and fired it anyway.

I think? It’s not my thread though I’m not even on twitter lol. Just my interpretation.

@Batteriesallgone

Am I misunderstanding the twitter post then?

Is this a way of saying that the burden of pregnancy/ childbirth falls unfairly onto women?

Should men have to shoulder more of that burden?

I agree with all that you are saying but it seems to me that the sensible arguments that you are putting forward are not the same as the arguments in the tweet.

Am I missing something though?

For men, the side effects are balanced against no danger at all to them, so the bar is much higher.

Give me a break.

Having a child is a risk to them. They may not have to carry the child or deliver it, but if it weren’t so easy for some men to abdicate all responsibility and do as little as humanly possible for their child, they’d see it as a risk too.

I agree with the twitter thread absolutely.

The financial impact then. If we got the child maintenance system properly sorted in this country demand for male contraception would probably shoot up

@Potatoandleeek

I understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree.

But how does that mean that men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies?

Are some men selfish lovers - sure

Do some many only think about their own enjoyment - yes

Are some men abusive/coercive around sex - definitely

But are men 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies - I'm not understanding that argument.

That’s not taking into account the psychological impact of having a child. If you take mental well-being into account (and the effect on that of an unwanted pregnancy and child) then men may well be willing to take physical/health risks to prevent that.

This is a good point - in fact I think it brings it back to the labour of childrearing being undervalued though, because I don't think many doctors or prospective men in need of birth control would consider that to be a strong reason, I don't think that even parents themselves would realistically think that way in most circumstances etc.