'Men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies'

But nor is every woman in a relationship with an abusive or coercive man

Ah, but, the number of relationships that are completely free of the influence of the patriarchy must be vanishingly small.

And where is the line between ‘hes just a being a man’ and ‘he’s abusive’ because I know plenty of women who say ‘that’s just how men are’.

Rape is penetration into the vagina by an erect/non erect penis.

Sexual assault is penetration of the anus, mouth, (LOOK AWAY NOW), umbilical cord - belly button, ears, nose and other orifices that may be there because of bowel problems - yes people do get off on this.

Look,

If you love and care for the person you are having sex with and you are 100% fertile 100% all of the time then you are the keyholder to safe sex. End. Of.

@placemats

So what is rape then? Is that not a sexual assault?

And terribly sorry to use the incorrect terminology but I don't think that I have ever discussed having sexual intercourse with anyone. I'm sure that pretty much everyone would know what I meant if I said "I had sex yesterday" wouldn't they?

And for clarification - surely you understand that their is a difference between rape and sexual intercourse?

Although does rape not actually involve sexual intercourse ie the actual physical act is that of sexual intercourse. Rape refers to it being forced/non consential?

But the post doesn't say that does it?

It doesn't say abusive men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies.

It says men are 100% responsible.

So that includes all unwanted pregnancies even with fully equal and consenting partners.

And I have said several times now that of course abusive men are totally responsible for their behaviour.

I don't for 1 minute think that every woman is in a consensual relationship. But nor is every woman in a relationship with an abusive or coercive man.

Surely you acknowledge that there is a difference between sexual assault and sex?

Sex to me is a biological difference between men and women.

Sexual assault is 'nice tits, give us a feel' 'bet you're up for it love, give us a cop' and both times actually touching. Nice bum, lovely to stroke. All by strangers and I didn't ask for this nor consent to it. Or go on love, I'll just put it in for a moment.

Sexual intercourse is intimate and very pleasurable for both partners. Each equally enthusiastic and up for the pleasure.

Surely you can see the difference?

Some people go their whole lives only experiencing coerced sex. It’s not rare. Plenty of women don’t discover their own sexuality, don’t orgasm, have babies, don’t properly recover, go their whole lives negotiating or giving in to sex.

I know it’s oh so woke to pretend this isn’t true and everyone is equal. Depends what circles you move in I guess.

Context is key. I think for women who understand the context of the twitter thread totally get the point she is making.

Feel free to talk about how in a vacuum, men and women would be equally responsible for pregnancy. But this IS the feminism topic, so I’m not apologising for approaching this with wider social problems in mind.

Surely you acknowledge that there is a difference between sexual assault and sex?

But we aren't talking about rapists and nor was the article that prompted OP.

We are only talking about fully consensual sex between two adults.

Any man abusing a woman or forcing her to do something through coercion is obviously 100% responsible for his actions.

We are talking about equal partners being equally responsible.

Because not only do some men not put on a condom, but they also couldn't give a shit as to whether the person they are having sex with is under age. If an adult male cannot discern the difference between a consenting woman and a 12 year old when it comes to sex, then they shouldn't be allowed out.

But 12 year olds are deemed sometimes, even in Scottish courts, as being sexually active Lass.

You like the Daily Mail Lass so have a wee look at this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4324482/Man-21-admitted-raping-12-year-old-girl-walks-FREE.html

I hope you mean not ALL women in this context?

Should a 12 year old take responsibility for not getting pregnant when her male relative is impregnating her against her will?

The article wasn't referring to children and neither was this thread until you brought them up.

What I meant was that any woman who is sexually active should take full responsibility for her own health

Any man who is sexually active should take full responsibility for his

Absolutely. It's so obviously correct.

If men don't want to get their partner pregnant then men can desist in sexual relations. Simple.

Yes of course. And if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant then she too can desist in sexual relations!

Neither a man nor a woman can create a pregnancy without the other so how can one party be 100% responsible for the pregnancy?

With reference to the twitter post a man could ejaculate 10 times a day - without a woman present no pregnancy will occur so, unless he is a rapist, the woman has consented thereby making her equally responsible for any resulting pregnancy.

Same goes for the man too. So if he wants to use a condom but the woman says no, she's on the pill so it's fine, but the man is being responsible and doesn't want to continue without he doesn't have to does he?

That's like something out of the 80s during a drunken post pub crawl chat with a cup of tea.

Biology dictates this. It can't be denied. If men don't want to get their partner pregnant then men can desist in sexual relations. Simple.

There are lots of men who really don't get what pregnancy means other than: shit I need to share my time and money. Or run away. Or pretend to be a partner.

@placemats

Sorry I'm on my phone and for some reason it randomly deletes words on this site.

What I was trying to say was that basically either partner can decide what contraception they are willing to use (or one at all). It is then up to the other partner as to whether they accept these conditions and to then only proceed if they are in agreement.

With regards to choice/responsibility - I agree that it is responsible to use condoms however if a man refuses to use them it doesn't mean that the woman HAS to go ahead and risk pregnancy (or disease) as the twitter page suggests does it?

Same goes for the man too. So if he wants to use a condom but the woman says no, she's on the pill so it's fine, but the man is being responsible and doesn't want to continue without he doesn't have to does he?

Either party can say that they are only prepared to have sex if their partner agrees to do as asked. They can't force the other party to do something that they don't want to but they can refuse to have sex.

Apologies for all the euphemisms, I'm a little uncomfortable being direct when talking about this subject but I was very strongly struck by this point.

Quite apart from the actual efficacy (which I have been led to believe is much less than claimed by the author) portraying a failure to properly use pull out contraception as a selfish or lazy act does seem rather strong. I will never know exactly what it is like for a man to climax (barring some sort of cybernetic singularity) but, for me, having to significantly modify my actions when I'm close would be quite challenging and something of a mood killer under any stimulating circumstances.

Expecting a man to act mechanically with perfect timing and precision during a very close, intimate moment (unless the differences between the sexes are far greater than I'm aware) seems very unrealistic and I would even propose that someone pouring such scorn upon a man failing to use this method may have never really experienced truly great sex. Personally, I think it's a silly way to prevent pregnancy, considering the conditions it's used under.

However, once he has told the woman wants to sleep with it is her whether to go ahead or not surely?

That doesn't make any sense.

He can use condoms, or not. That is totally his choice surely?

I would argue not a choice but a responsibility. Surely.

A man knows he's fertile for all of his life once puberty starts. That's were the conversation should start.

So the woman takes no responsibility for letting some man put his cock in her, knowing no protection was used? Well that’s the most stupid thing I’d read today.

Woman aren’t stupid uneducated little things, we KNOW how babies are made and we can protect our bodies against pregnancy so why wouldn’t you? If a woman doesn’t want to take the pill or similar then no condom= no sex!

In my single years I had a few sexual partners and never had 1 refuse to wear a condom and I also took the pill as well as I was not going to end up with an unplanned pregnancy. Why because I’m not stupid and wanted to do all I could to protect myself against pregnancy

Men & Woman are both responsible for making sure protection is used

@QuentinSummers

Isn't that the point though?

Both partners are equally responsible? In which case how is the twitter feed correct in saying men are 100% responsible?

Does that mean women have 0 responsibility?

This men are 100% responsible thing is totally unconnected to the realities of contraception. It's a nonsense statistic; as Arthuritis has pointed out, women are equally 100% responsible for pregnancy.

Of course both parties have to take responsibility. Ultimately, however equal the relationship, however feminist the attitudes, it is always the woman who bears the brunt of consequences of pregnancy. Therefore women must take responsibility for their own contraception.

No of course not.

What I meant was that any woman who is sexually active should take full responsibility for her own health.

Any man who is sexually active should take full responsibility for his.

I cannot see how it can be argued that a man is 100% responsible for making sure that a woman doesn't get pregnant.

He can use condoms, or not. That is totally his choice surely?

However, once he has told the woman wants to sleep with it is her whether to go ahead or not surely?

Why are so many women acting like they are passive here with no choice other to accept whatever a man decides to do?

I'm not following this argument at all.

Late to the thread but this
Woman doesn't want to take responsibility (fair enough). Neither does man (fair enough) so woman says then we're not having sex. No pregnancy.

Surely the power lies with women? No condom no sex.

Exactly the same power lies with the man. He can also say no condom no sex if he's serious about not risking pregnancy. But it seems totally acceptable that a man would go bareback unless a woman asks.

Women should take full responsibility for their own reproductive health.

Reproductive health is much more than just pregnancy.

Are you suggesting that once a 10 year old starts their periods they should take full responsibility?

How can men be responsible for 100% of all pregnancies?

Men cannot create a pregnancy on their own.

Women cannot create pregnancy on their own.

Surely you have to say a man is 100% and a woman is 100% responsible?

Both have joint and several responsibility (except in the case of rape as has already been stated).

Women should take full responsibility for their own reproductive health.

If they can't or don't want to use any of the female contraceptives then they have to make sure that the men they have sex with use contraception.

If the man says no then it's down to the woman to refuse sex, unless she is happy to risk pregnancy. If she has unprotected sex then how is the result 100% the man's responsibility?

It's a joint decision not to use contraception, other than in the case of rape or deception.