Can we talk about why members of the cabinet are too scared to talk about self ID?

So the message we need to take from longview is go and see your MP.

They need to know now that this IS a concern for their constituents because between now and the legislation coming forward, Stonewall, NSPCC, Allsorts et al will have slid a whole raft of shit through, unnoticed.
If there is a general election within the next 6 months (I understand that that is what the Labour Party are briefing) and the LP are elected then I am sure that space will be found for this legislation within the first Queens Speech.
We are in danger of living the reality before the legislation actually happens. In fact if your daughter, granddaughter or niece is in the GG or is a gymnast or is in a local authority school advised by Allsorts then they are living this now.

Thank you for posting here longview

The thing is many people are intimidated by going to see their MP, or worry that they will not be articulate enough, or have diffcult life circumstances that make it extra difficult for them to do so. I think women are particularly put off from going to see a male MPh - as a GC man he will know this of course.

There is proposed legislation though, and this fight will come. Trans extremists will make sure of it, because they target politicians and organisations without public knowledge to make this all a 'done deal', and target their litigation to set particular precedents, often benefitting from biased or underinformed judges.

Brexitd just provides distraction and cover as the credit crunch and terrorism threats have done.

But if we can speak out now we will save women and children additional hurt. He has a duty to step in now, not later.

Longweek wrote: If there were proposed legislation, then yes, he’d start making his views clear. But there is no legislation planned, and I suspect that changes to GRC will be quietly kicked into the long grass.

Useful insight tho', in the interim, and in anticipation of the legislation, it feels like women are being defined out of existence/thrown under buses/ and safeguarding has become an morass of unresolvable intersections. Organisations are changing their guidelines in anticipation of legislative changes that might not happen and they're not willing to change.

LongWeek Thanks for the insight. I think people don't connect things like the Karen White case and GRA consultation. Even the TUC vote has passed so many by - see www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3362478-After-some-very-moving-contributions-TUC-unanimously-supports-gender-self-declaration where so many union members were not consulted & had no idea their union had a stance.

I think the outcome of the consultation could be what pushes the probability of legislation into the long grass if there are sufficient GC responses to counter-balance the responses from the shouty brigade.

We've forgotten what it is like to expect courage and leadership from the people who have promised to serve us.

This.

I’ll bet the Tory party is stuffed with aging autogynephiliacs and cross dressers.

I'd bet good money on this but I'd wager it's not just a Tory proclivity.

Anyone else old enough to remember Tory MP Stephen Milligan?

Quite apart from the autoerotic asphyxiation element (and the orange) I remember at the time being puzzled that he was apparently found in women's underwear...cut to 20 odd years later and thanks to the eye opening things I've read over the past few years on FWR I know now that cross dressing and autoerotic asphyxiation have a comorbidity.

DH is an MP. Not saying which party.

He has not gone public with his views on trans issues. Main reasons:

1. he’s been contacted by 2 people about this so it’s not high on the agenda of his constituents. So why mention it publicly?
2. it’s not a piece of legislation currently being considered- this is the main reason.

It has nothing at all with fear, or money, or pressure groups, or being told by the party what to think, or ambition.

If there were proposed legislation, then yes, he’d start making his views clear. But there is no legislation planned, and I suspect that changes to GRC will be quietly kicked into the long grass.

They’re all too busy fighting about brexit and amongst themselves at the moment.

He’s GC.

Silentcrow someone's pointed out one's called Davies the other Davis so we can tell them apart. I think you're right. I can't see legislation on this going through while brexit's ongoing.

Prawn. They don't seem frightened of lobbies for other social causes - it still seems strange to me. Maybe bettydumonde has it.

I have noticed DJ over the last week on twitter.

I’ll bet the Tory party is stuffed with aging autogynephiliacs and cross dressers.

Ha. That's what the DH always says. And then, "But they're not as thick as the woke brigade so they keep it on the down low."

I don't know if he has spoken up before but Lord Jones is pulling no punches & has a lot of followers:
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/10385110391203717144*

Where are the rape threats, the insults, the die-in-fire responses? Amazing the difference when a man is openly GC compared to when a woman is.

Oh, and many congratulations on the baby, GulagMilkMonitor.

To which gender have you coercively assigned it? Or did you toss a coin?

I really don't get how Tories are worried about not appearing woke on this. They don't try and look woke on other policy areas. Their voter and membership base will mostly think it's loony to allow anyone to change sex - and be treated as their new sex by law - just because they want to.

I don't think it's about seeming woke, I think it's fear of the transactivist lobby which, though small, is impressively well organized and well connected. If you become a target it can be devastating.

I agree with you that most of the general public will be outraged if Self-ID comes in. Only 13% of Tory voters agree with it, and I imagine there'll be an outcry if there are more Karen Whites, more Jess Bradleys.

We talk about it here and we mostly resent the new modding policy, but even before that we were very polite about it.

Men are not polite. I've already shared my DBs' perspective on S
men who identify as women in single sex spaces The word "pervert" was used twice in the first minute of our discussion (and it wasn't me who said it).

I'm hoping the consultation doesn't lead to a change in the law. But even if it's dropped, the changes in policy across the country will only be rescinded under pressure.

Manderleyagain well, THAT makes a lot more sense - I couldn't figure out why he wasn't torn to shreds for it!

I think my main point still stands, though, Brexit has killed anything else for the foreseeable.

I’ll bet the Tory party is stuffed with aging autogynephiliacs and cross dressers.

And the lords, across all parties.

I bet some of them tell themselves that TWAW because it means their predilection for trans porn can’t be internalised homophobia.

As for the women, well, have you’ve see all the die in a fire/kill terf stuff. Our MPs have no security protection outside of parliament, and Jo Cox was their colleague.

Another general election is brewing.
My MP thinks it might even happen before the end of the year.

I don't know if he has spoken up before but Lord Jones is pulling no punches & has a lot of followers:
twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1038511039120371714

@Manderleyagain
The Brexit dude is called David Davis, without an e

Pamsterwheel - 'dont these men have daughters?' That must have been uttered many times by women trying to gain rights for women!

Silent crow the David Davies who has spoken against self I'd (or at least for engaging with wpuk) is not the same one as the brexit dd. There are two Tory mps called David Davies! (More David's than women Mps?) This one is a smaller fish.

I really don't get how Tories are worried about not appearing woke on this. They don't try and look woke on other policy areas. Their voter and membership base will mostly think it's loony to allow anyone to change sex - and be treated as their new sex by law - just because they want to.

The fact that the only people campaigning against are doing so from a feminist position might mean the message isn't getting to those people.

Any cabinet minister who is 'scared' to do the right thing, should recuse themselves from their position of power, lest they become a passive conduit through which the wrong thing is enacted.

There is no room for cowardice in those people we have elected to uphold justice and fairness. None. How much power does a person need before it is enough to be able to LEAD? A cabinet minister isn't powerful enough? Are they waiting for God to intervene?

We've forgotten what it is like to expect courage and leadership from the people who have promised to serve us.

Simple: Self-interest, survival, career, lack of motivation.

1. There will be a leadership contest in the Tory party in the next 12 months.

1. The Tory party is in danger of splitting.

1. Brexit has sucked the life out the government -

1. The women's lobby is weak and the general public haven't been mobilised.

But don't these men have daughters, granddaughters, nieces ???

Okay. It's not that they're scared so much as they're being PAID to ignore it, or, at the very least, not "rock the boat'.

A lot of people are hoping to make a lot of money out of fucking peoples lives up with this transgender movement. They're hoping to get life long patients who require surgery and hormones; that's a lot of moolah!

Agree they are being silenced by their fear of falling off the gravy train, not any fear of public calumny.

I think I saw something where St Theresa had signed up to something about 10 years ago when she was doing W&E?

If so, she has been on the Kool-Aid for a long time. Still, politicians who want to survive are pragmatic (usually). It depends on whether her advisors are actually doing some proper thinking here.