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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling

158 replies

Velella · 13/09/2018 21:05

JK Rowling is being called out on twitter by Owl for liking Janice Turner's fox-in-the-henhouse article.

Many of us have thought for a long while that JKR is on side. I wish she would come out publicly and fully support women.

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Floisme · 14/09/2018 07:48

Hold your nerve JK. What would Hermione do?

Datun · 14/09/2018 07:44

Owl telling JK Rowling off for not supporting a rapist in a female prison is a gift. And another example how how arrogance and misogyny spectacularly clouds their judgment. Scant as it is.

I should imagine they're pretty pissed off with foxes being widely used to represent predators too.

Remind me, was it Owl or Fox who said homosexuality was 'deviant' in that video?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 14/09/2018 07:40

YANBU. There is no safe option to use in regards to someone who describes themselves as nonbinary. Which is likely to be part of their reason for doing so, imo - so much delicious power in making everyone walk on eggshells.

Yes. Absolutely.

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 07:25

Re. rape fantasies - yes, a not insignificant number of women have them (I write fanfiction, so I know this all too well - they are remarkably prevalent in what is a female-dominated subculture, where predominantly women write for a predominantly female audience).

However, it is important to remember that such fantasies may be coming from exactly the same place - namely, a maladaptive coping strategy to the ubiquitous threat of male violence.

There are a number of "explanations" for their popularity, none of which hinges on the truly stupid idea that women actually want to be raped.

  1. what you might call the classic lib-fem explanation: they're not about rape at all, they're a metaphor for being overwhelmed by passion in a world which tells you that female sexuality is so wrong that the only way you can allow yourself to let go and enjoy sex is if you were "made to do it." (I have talked to women from US fundy Christian backgrounds who say this is in fact an accurate description of the way their sexuality got distorted by their upbringing.)

  2. The rad-fem analysis: male sexual violence is so widespread that a form of society-wide Stockholm syndrome sets in. Some women eroticise their sexual oppression because they use it as a coping strategy to avoid facing up to the fact that if they don't consent to sex, it may be forced upon them anyway.

  3. As a form of cathartic working through of events after someone has been raped - fiction becomes a way of re-working the narrative in such a way that the reader/writer is in control.

All of these, it seems to me, are coming from exactly the same place as the young teen who opts to try to avoid being sexualised by men altogether by "identifying" as a man - they are all maladaptive coping strategies, forms of cognitive dissonance, to cope with life in a shitty patriarchal world.

What they are not is like the motivation of a male consumer of rape porn. A male consumer of rape porn's motivation is much simpler: he is identifying with the rapist and getting off on the idea of raping women. This motivation is entirely sinister, and why, while I have had female friends who were into rape porn, I'd run a mile from any man who admitted to enjoying rape porn.

And for the record, I do not believe the claims that "more women than men" watch rape porn on porn hub. I think that's an MRA crock of shit, like the "women and men commit DV in equal numbers" crock of shit (which basically translates as "we're going to count all repeated instances where the male perpetrator beats the shit out of the female victim as one incident, and give it equal weight to the one occasion on which the female victim shoves the man out of the way in her efforts to escape.)

SophoclesTheFox · 14/09/2018 07:24

Come on JK - they've already turned on you - GO FOR IT! Grin

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 14/09/2018 07:01

*There was a post on twitter a few days ago by a GC feminist (I can't recall who, sorry) where, to paraphrase, she said she wished she'd understood when first entering into this debate, that you might as well be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

Essentially she was alluding to the reality that however tentatively and sensitively you support a position/opinion that doesn't fall behind the total capitulation of sex based rights you're vilified as a TERF.**

This. Caroline Lucas capitulated and they still hung her.

lydiamajora · 14/09/2018 06:32

Three "reference"s in a sentence makes me blergh. That said, I am also in the woke age bracket while not, myself, being woke. We definitely exist, and it is nice to see JK is a woman of sense.

Shall go queue up my Potter audiobooks and settle in with my crocheting...

thewitchofwentworth · 14/09/2018 01:32

This person appears to be acting like the morality police they have in Iran. Relentlessly stalking women to make sure they don't step out of line.

BettyDuMonde · 14/09/2018 01:24

How the fuck did this person write a book?

I hope the Indie doesn’t pay for their submissions, the copy editor deserves double pay instead.

JK Rowling
DeRigueurMortis · 14/09/2018 01:06

There was a post on twitter a few days ago by a GC feminist (I can't recall who, sorry) where, to paraphrase, she said she wished she'd understood when first entering into this debate, that you might as well be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

Essentially she was alluding to the reality that however tentatively and sensitively you support a position/opinion that doesn't fall behind the total capitulation of sex based rights you're vilified as a TERF.

The thing is, I feel this TRA tactic is now working to our advantage.

More and more people with a large following on Twitter are falling foul of this.

It often starts with a back track, but slowly they seem to build up a head of steam as it were and over time become increasingly more outspoken as they realise there is no "middle ground" to be found in dealing with TRA's.

@Glinner is a cracking example of this, but you can also seek people like Robert Webb and Alison Moyet who increasingly seem to be "breaking ranks" to various degrees.

I can't pretend I know what JKR thinks about this issue.

However, I do believe she is a feminist and feels strongly about women's rights.

I'm really glad to see her doubling down in support of JT's article and it's equally heartening to see that twitter thread from "Owl" being robustly torn apart for its misogyny.

BettyDuMonde · 14/09/2018 00:54

I like to think she watched Posie Parker’s recent video, downed a glass of something and thought, ‘fuck it’.

‘Like’

ToeToToe · 14/09/2018 00:31

I was working, and way beyond school & uni when I first read the Harry Potter books. As were loads of my friends, and my DH. We're all in our (late) 40s now!

We read the books to our kids, and watch the films with them.

Harry Potter is not just for the young - and certainly not for uncritically woke.

dinosaurkisses · 14/09/2018 00:21

@Bolloxio I sincerely hope you’re right, but I’m not convinced given she didn’t maintain her position last time.

I just hope the fact the new Fantastic Beasts film is out relatively soon doesn’t cause her PR team to backtrack.

JillyArmeeen · 14/09/2018 00:19

Yes it is a tricky position. But she's itching to come out with those likes.
The first hp book came out when I was first year of secondary school so the age range of the first fans goes way up to mid 30s.
We're not all woke. And now we have the buying power and kids, nieces nephews, godchildren of our own to buy books for, take to the cinema or to exhibitions at the British library.

dinosaurkisses · 14/09/2018 00:18

Exactly, but usually you wouldn’t have hundreds of messages accusing you of literal murder” and a boycott of your body of work for telling a young person to give their head a wobble.

Bolloxio · 14/09/2018 00:18

The fact that she has doubled down by liking another tweet is heartening though.

Just seen this. Fantastic.

On that Owl thread there were a number of posters saying they were gutted and disappointed in her showing herself go to a “bigot”- that can’t be easy to hear, especially if for the last 20 years you’ve had people blowing smoke up your arse.
I am sure JK knows that being a feminist is something you get criticism for. Especially from male people.

The doubling down says to me that shes not going back on it this time. I have a feeling her PR company may have pressured her to do so last time but with the second like it cannot be explained away as just a mistake really, not that it was a mistake in the first place but it seemed to satisfy the shouty abusive TRAs.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/09/2018 00:14

Sometimes caring about young people means telling them no, though.

dinosaurkisses · 14/09/2018 00:09

I think she’s in a tricky position- the current batch of TRAs and their followers will have grown up with Harry Potter and she must feel some obligation towards them, regardless of whether or not she supports their ideology.

On that Owl thread there were a number of posters saying they were gutted and disappointed in her showing herself go to a “bigot”- that can’t be easy to hear, especially if for the last 20 years you’ve had people blowing smoke up your arse.

Bolloxio · 14/09/2018 00:07

Genuinely hope she doesn't backtrack this time. That came across badly (and also gave penis news a chance to gloat..which is always bad)

Though, this is a very odd hill for TRAs to die on. Would have thought they would just ignore it completely..like the Challenor thing or Jess Bradley.

Owl is basically sending a bunch of people to read Janices fabulous article..and honestly, I cannot see many at all agreeing that its transphobic to want rapists not to go in female prisons ffs.

ToeToToe · 14/09/2018 00:07

And the fact is, woke twitter lot - Jk Rowling's "like" is just objecting to male rapists is women's prisons.

How could you be "for" that? How could you object to JK Rowling objecting to that?? What is wrong with you?? What is wrong with your ideology that you think housing male rapists in female prisons is an ok thing to do?

silentcrow · 14/09/2018 00:07

It must be a tricky position to be in. Potter fans are such a broad age range - I'm in my forties and bought the books when they first came out; the teens and children who bought them then will be in the early to mid twenties woker-than-woke bracket. And the stories are deeply meaningful to many people. Thing is, it's people like me who now buy them for the next generation, and I think we're the ones with the more disposable income to spend on theme parks and World Book Day costumes. So if all one cares about is purchasing power, it makes sense to remember who buys the Birds Eye peas and the box sets and the family cinema tickets for the next generation.

I credit Rowling with not being as mercenary as all that...JK, if you are reading this, please, from the bottom of my heart, if you look at nothing else look at the safeguarding risks on this. It puts ALL children in danger; from predators, from each other.

FloralBunting · 14/09/2018 00:05

They're both non binary. They have a ridiculous video in which they discuss different names they could call each other relationship-wise because the normal stuff like partner or girlfriend or boyfriend is just so vanilla.

They come to the conclusion that the universe is so damned cisnormative that there is nothing that they can name their partner when introducing them that doesn't make clear how super special and sparkly their relationship is to set them apart from all the boring normals.

It's hard not to sob hard, painful tears for their struggles by the end of it.

JillyArmeeen · 14/09/2018 00:04

If I was Jk with all that lovely money in the bank and the relative power and freedom that brings, I'd be throwing my weight and my money around all over the place. Who can touch her? What can they actually do?
As it is I'm at the other end of the spectrum, no money and nothing to lose, I can spout my opinion about as much as I want. I'm free too.
Bloody Owl, bore off mate, so tedious.
I can't abide tantrums.

ToeToToe · 13/09/2018 23:58

Fox & Owl are in a relationship yes? And do those godawful books for schools (fair opinion, yes?) Fox is tran-masc, Owl is trans-fem. so it's (factually) a het relationship. A male and a female. Which I find very amusing. Sorry - woke twitter lot. Fact is - you're worshipping an ordinary het relationship.

dinosaurkisses · 13/09/2018 23:54

I’m holding my breath in case she comes out with another “oops my cat walked across my iPad haha” moment.

The fact that she has doubled down by liking another tweet is heartening though.