Accepting the term 'cis'?

Ellen7262 "The term 'cis woman' is only used when discussing the difference between them and trans women. It won't make any difference to your life."

The term woman is used when discussing the difference between us and male transitioners. it won't make any difference to their lives.

"The term 'cis woman' is only used when discussing the difference between them and trans women. "

An example of this would be "Die Cis Scum" presumably?

The term 'cis woman' is only used when discussing the difference between them and trans women. It won't make any difference to your life. In every other area of life, you will still be referred to as a woman

Sorry love. I'm not having that. I'm not a cis woman and you have no right to define what you think I should be. I could refer to you as a cunt, but I don't suppose you'd like that anymore than I like being defined. Hope this helps.

Have any of the women here tried to use "female (sensu stricto)" to refer to our sex, in discussion with a TRA? If so, how did it go down?

Yes all the time. Some are prepared to accept "female" is exclusive to actual women, some will wank on about clownfish bollocks, some will say they are female.

This whole issue has a major problem with vocabulary.

We need a way to describe people who belong to the sex class which produces eggs.
It's impossible to have a discussion without it getting derailed by one side objecting to the word "cis" to describe people who reject the concept of gender, while the other side objects to "female" because it is exclusionary.

Have any of the women here tried to use "female (sensu stricto)" to refer to our sex, in discussion with a TRA? If so, how did it go down?

No. They can fuck off with their cis nonsense. We're expected to pander to their tantrums and police our language but they get to call us names? Just fuck off.

The people popping up here saying "cis just means not trans" demonstrates quite plainly the danger of giving people a little bit of knowledge... 🙄

Bloody cis does not bloody mean bloody not trans!

Ffs, I am so sick of people with no idea what they are talking about, they're everywhere!! Cis is a Latin prefix most often used in chemistry. A cis isomer is one in which the two functional groups align across a double bond. A trans isomer is one in which the two functional groups are on opposite sides/do not align across a (n immovable) double bond.

Therefore, if trans person means person whose gender identity and sex do not align, a cis person must be one whose gender identity and sex do align. So male person feels they have a feminine identity - trans, but to call joe public "cis" assumes that they a) have a gender identity and b) it is the stereotype associated with their sex.

In the case of "Josephine" public, it assumes that they identify with the oppression they face as a female.

I do not. I am not cis.

This is where all the violent anger and sexual threats come from.

Women who step out of line need punishment.

Because cunty people exist to be helpmeets to men and boys

And we must do as we are fucking well told or else.

How come calling someone 'cis', even if they don't like it, is fine because 'it's just a description'....

But calling an adult human who has XY chromosomes, a penis and testicles, produces sperm, doesn't mensturate (because they have a male reproductive system), will never carry a baby or give birth (because they have a male reproductive system) and has a male skeletal frame and other physical characteristics, but who feels more comfortable when they are presenting according to the social stereotypes normally associated with women.... Why is calling them man is horrific misgendering and violence? Surely 'Man' is 'just a description' in that situation as well?

But then on the other hand you have activitis saying that women MUST be cis, they are not ALLOWED to be trans, otherwise the category of Trans becomes v meaningless and they aren't brave and stunning any more.

Absolutely the old woman in the post office, the mum at school, Aunt Dora are not ALLOWED to be trans. They are not ALLOWED to self identify.

Because women must be whatever men say they are. If men say we are cis then we are cis, even if we say no we aren't.

HOW everyone can't see the massive fucking logical fails all over this shitshow is anyone's guess.

Women MUST be both ciswomen (to give something to be trans - opposite to) but ALSO must not be women at all (because hardly anyone IDs with restrictive gender roles least of all women which is why we've been fighting them for decaeds).

I have lost patience with this.

A chap who says I'm a woman or I'm a girl does not become that by magic. It's ludicrous nonsense.

My teen has a friend and he asked me to intervene in an argument they were having. This 14 year old girl was under the impression that men could grow ovaries ☹️ Teenagers just need to be educated OP.

A conversation with an adult female on fb (pro trans stuff) demonstrated that she fully believed the 'Assigned at birth' stuff and thought all foetuses started out male and then changed. Either didn't have the knowledge (I doubt) or hadn't worked out that when an embryo is conceived it's xx or xy.

I think some people genuinely get trans mixed up with some sort of intersex thing due to the "born in the wrong body" mantra. I think this happens as they aren't scientific, haven't done sciences since gcse and aren't interested in those sort of things so literally just follow the crowds and mantras they hear and watch on body shock type tv/ jazz Jennings etc.

Or they never move beyond the above 14 ye old girls understanding

"Transactivists on twitter are telling women that if they don't have a gender identity, they are non-binary.

That is literal erasure of the female sex, and leaves the word "woman" meaningless. "

Yes -

In general - the inclusion of some men in the group women, and the disinclusion of loads (most?) cunty people from the words women, girl, female,

Mean that
Cunty people have no ways to describe their issues, lobby for change, raise awareness, target help and all the rest of it

In addition
The idea that equal representation can be achieved by having 50% male and 50% transwomen that apparently even lots of cunty women think is a great idea (!)
Will result in mens and transwomens "issues" being centred,
Issues that cunty people suffer around the world will again not be on the table (they've only been there for what 40 years ro so?) (non trivial - reproductive rights issue result in 1000s of deaths every year and fuck knows how much permanent injury, access to education, being raped in war areas, and by NGOs and charity workers who come to help, child marriage and underage pregnancy (again with the death / damage), DV, street harrassment and so on and so forth)...

"There are worse things happening in the world than you being referred to as a cis woman"

... as opposed to an obviously male transwoman being called 'he', which is 'literal violence'.

Oh wait.

Another thought. If there needs to be a differentiation between women, then surely it is the trans women that need the label. Not women who have been women for centuries.

was told I had to accept I was a ciswoman, not a woman...whether I liked it or not! I was also told as a ciswoman I had priviages trans mtf could only dream of.

What a load of bollocks.

Why on Earth should I be called a cis woman? I am and will always be a woman. I’m not having anyone else tell me otherwise. Trans women are trans women, why should I have to change my gender (name) because they’ve changed their?

Cis woma "oh it just mesns non trans. It's nothing."

GRA " Just a bit of admin. Only affects trans."

Did the plan work Edward? It worked beautifully, Tubbs.

If people with gender dysphoria are told that it isn't a mental illness anymore and self ID is implemented, then there won't be any testosterone or HRT available becausenof won't be recognised as a treatable condition. There will be no surgery options, no puberty blockers, nothing

I don't think this is the case. I think in the new utopia with self-ID where anyone can be trans whatever they wear, however they present and whatever they call themselves with no requirement to prove gender disphoria to be trans - then gender disphoria still exists it is just not a mental illness.

It becomes purely a physical issue like all the other variations on human basic which happen every so often due to genetic issues: This boy was born without fingers on his right hand. This girl was born with six toes on each foot. This boy was born with a penis which only extends a few mm from the pubis (what used to be called a clitoris) and without external testicles. This girl was born with an additional growth between her legs and her breasts aren't developing properly in puberty. Like with other physical variances, some people will choose not to have any surgery and some will. Whether or not you want the extra bits of you removed or missing bits substituted with artificially constructed alternatives will be a matter of assessing to what extent your difference from a standard body shape is causing you distress or hardship.

To be honest, if someone could wave a magic wand and entirely eliminate all the structural inequality and discrimination against bleeders&birthers (the category of human that used to be called women) then I would not have any issue with this new utopia. It would be great.

It's just that bleeders&birthers (of any gender presentation) do have different needs to penis-bearers (of any gender presentation). We need additional opportunities in many fields to correct against astronomical underrepresentation and structural and unconscious bias from the penis-havers who dominate senior positions in so many fields of endeavour because of all the barriers they didn't have to face when they were in their teens, twenties, thirties etc. We need different categories in sports as our physiology is different. We need penis-bearer-free spaces for changing and in hospitals and prisons for our safety and dignity.

If self-ID becomes law we will need to organise to create these protections and accommodations for bleeders&birthers. It will be a long road.

Exactly. We're not a bi part of some category. We are the category!

This 'cis just means non-trans' nonsense really melts my head. I'm off out with my non-cat for a walk if anyone is looking for me!

And no womb transplants either.....

Yay for crowdfunding!!!

Toetotoe: yes absolutely! If people with gender dysphoria are told that it isn't a mental illness anymore and self ID is implemented, then there won't be any testosterone or HRT available becausenof won't be recognised as a treatable condition. There will be no surgery options, no puberty blockers, nothing.

Right?

we are going to "Idiocratia" pretty soon.
fucking hell. im a woman, not ciswoman. show me the privileges being a women. show me the privileges being a woman in China, Afganistan- including all of the countries "Stana" at the end,India etc. when they chiose to abort you just because you are a woman. Show me the privilage being a women when they are burned, (not talking about all countries above) , beaten to death, because they said 'no' to something. Screw all of the man who think that surgery is magically make you a women. you are never gonna be one.