Accepting the term 'cis'?

There's a complete logic fail in all of this, by trans activists.

Trans activists say that we need to be able to distinguish between those "assigned female at birth" and those who seek to align their presentation with their Gender identity" (whatever the fuck that is).

But ...

If transwomen are women [#nodebate] fuck that

then you don't need to distinguish women-assigned-female-at-birth from men-who-feel-femme

They are all women.

So why do transactivists insist on "cis" ? It actually just demonstrates that they recognise that transwomen aren't women, really.

QED

So a 'not not-woman'? Stuff rhat.

It defines actual women as "non MTF trans person". Fuck that.

You only need to add a prefix to denote a subgroup. Since 'women' includes all actual women 'cis' is totally redundant.

In fact i think they’d be incredulous & say to me ‘are you going to take this? If you do you may as well lie down & give away all your rights’.

Yes so would mine.

Why add a nice new made up prefix to a perfectly good word to differentiate those women who were born female then?

Don't expect women to slide over and give their descriptors to the newcomers.

Personally, I'm not that bothered about the word 'cis' being used to describe me. It's not a word I feel the need to use about myself, but I'm ambivalent towards it. However, if I have to accept that my 'cis-ness' gives me certain privileges that trans women don't experience, then I want trans women and TRAs to accept and respect that my 'cis-ness' also means I experience oppression that they do not. I want it to be accepted that being a trans woman means their biology at birth gives them privileges I as a 'cis' woman can only dream of.

Def the suffragette one. She was hard.

They would have cared Melamin, they would have roared ‘stop with your nonsense NOW’.

My great grandmothers were the same - one signed up with the Manchester suffragettes - she lost at least 2 sisters to poverty, another brought up 6 children on her own after she was widowed and ran a business, another took in washing and sold all her worldly goods to feed her children through the general strikes and depression years. The last one, I don't know so much about - she died of cervical cancer when she was in her 40s. So, no, none of them would give a fig for this cis crap.

I’m 50, I knew 2 of my great grandmothers. Both born about 1880. Both strong women who raised large families & rAn businesses & fought all the way for every scrap they ever got.

They would be appalled at this cis women shite. They said that they were glad i was born into a different world & would have a better life as a result of their struggle to assert their women’s rights.

In fact i think they’d be incredulous & say to me ‘are you going to take this? If you do you may as well lie down & give away all your rights’.

It would simply be an untruth . I am not mystically "aligned" with a gender assigned to me at birth or whatever the parlance is.

It's all a piece of nonsense and I'd never accept this. In a family situation as described I'd simply say we'll have to agree to disagree.

Old women, fat women, scruffy women, belligerent women... all these I would answer to as there is truth in them.

Cis women? Off yeh fuck. I do not identify with the methods of my oppression. I am an adult human female, a woman, first and foremost, no prefix required.

You are in the majority (women make up just over 50% of the global population) so, no, you don't have to accept it. They need to accept that you're a woman and they're not, even though they may "feel" like a woman (how can a man know what being a woman "feels" like???)

Also, this is such a "first-world-problems" issue - you think people in sub-saharan Africa give a shit about these peoples "gender feelings"? LOL
They're not living in reality, you know, the SCIENTIFIC and BIOLOGICAL reality the rest of us live in.

Why is there no blooming "does not equals" sign on the keyboard!

I already have a bloody Greek keyboard on my iPad so I can write α and β easily, why is there no =/=

But then I know that we're so very steeped in gender roles and that some people truly feel trapped by the genitalia they were born with and that gender reassignment really does help their mental health

Absolutely, @Pidlan !

I know several people who transitioned (or are in the process of doing so) for MH reasons. Although one of them is still clinically depressed. I tend to see gender dysphoria as a bodily dysphoria eg like anorexia, which is a symptom rather than a cause of a chronic (mental) illness.

But ...

Maybe it would help if you thought of it this way?

sex = male or female biological sex you're born as

gender = femininity and masculinity.

Femininity and masculinity are culturally (and historically) constructed. They are malleable & fluid. Sex is not.

I can think of many many many examples from history and now across the world where expectations of gender roles (or sex stererotypes) are different.

I can remember when equal pay for equal work was not a thing. My grandmother had to fight to get a university degree. Her grandmother was of the generation when education past reading & writing was thought to be "unhealthy" for girls as it would lead to the atrophy of their uteruses.

I'm sure we can all think of similar examples, to show that our ideas of what behaviour, life choices etc are appropriate for men and women simply because they're male or female are changeable, and have differed hugely over the years and centuries.

I haven’t read whole thread but I came across the term ciswoman I live under a rock and I am WTF.

I don’t give a flying fuck who says what I will not be referred to a ‘CIS’ I will not tick any boxes where it says ‘CIS’

I’m female, I’m lady I will even agree to old lady, but not a fucking hell chance will I be ‘CIS’ included in that.

I don’t give a rats arse who wants to be what, who or where crack on with it but I’m sick to the back teeth having others choices rammed down my throat.

Fucking joke, I’m accept all walk of life but the case here is bullshit ‘oh nobody will accept me pity fucking sob shit’ emotional blackmail used to fight a cause.

To refer me as ‘CIS’ is an insult and to be told I am not allowed to be insulted is hypocritical.

And you know what else I’m angry about (fuck I don’t remember being this vexed before), MN bowing down to this shit this wasn’t what it stood for.

It pisses all over all things achieved and it always been in best interest for everyone.

Oh but no doubt I will been as hater, and all other fucking names they band about, double standards.

Fuck I’m mad

This is the "non men" situation that we have been battling against for millenia.

Women are not like men but just crapper.

This is true

A man without a dick =/= a woman

Another one popular among sports transwomen is that they are mcuh weaker when they take their hormones.
This is infuriating.

A weakened man (whether via artifical hormones or some other mechanism e.g. old age) =/= a woman.

Women are not basically the same as men just weaker.
What even is this shit.

But I don’t understand how ig u get rid of genitals you are still the same person as before Nothing has changed you just have no genitals

You don’t suddendly turn into a woman

Genuinely confused at the entire debate, I'm a woman, not trans woman, why does my designation need to be altered when a trans woman has that designation to distinguish they weren't born female anyway? No offence intended, just genuinely baffled.

I worked with a trans woman a few years ago, she was undergoing hormone treatments and eventually had the op, she described herself as trans the entire time I worked with her. I always found it sad she used the disabled toilets instead of the female toilets, that was more her issue as she'd brought it up that she didn't want to make anyone else uncomfortable

We need a Science party - all political decisions to be based on scientific fact checking policy from now on. Would sort everything right out. Economics, Social Policy, Health etc - all logic based.

That would be great. A party that doesn't think that the CO2 footprint of tar sand oil can be altered by altering the number on paper, in order to appease Canada (as happened with CETA, courtesy EU burocrats). A party that understands that in an actual physical system, yes, at some point a measure can be too late and no financial trick or international agreement can make the problem then disappear nor rewind the clock.

Love the billboard!
T-shirts available here (I'm not affiliated)
www.standingforwomen.com/shop

Just spotted in twitter. It appears that Liverpool council have come out and firmly nailed their glittery unicorn rainbow flag the their mast.

Are there any trans professors of organic chemistry I wonder?

Are there any trans professors of any life sciences I wonder?