Accepting the term 'cis'?

Why can’t there be a third space? I’d get behind that? Why is it women who have to be told to suck it up?

Well because the transactivists don't want a third space. Partly because they need to be in a woman's space in order to validate their identity. Being in a third space doesn't achieve that for them. Hence the cry that transwomen 'exist' and are 'valid'. Seemingly for them to be both of these things they need other people to agree with them that transwomen are women. And if they are women then they need access to the same things biological women have.

For some transactivists, they simply want to be in womens spaces. There is a vast amount of information on Google on the lengths men will go to to access women's changing areas, sometimes killing themselves in the process. A simple change in becoming 'female' solves this problem for some of them. Instead of going to great lengths to observe, they can simply stroll right in.

There are other reasons as well. Google autogynephilia. It makes interesting reading. Really we do have quite a battle on our hands to preserve women and children's rights and safety. The transactivists do seem to have a lot of money and influence behind them.

I think what I’d be happiest with is campaigning for a third space (which doesn’t encroach on disabled facilities!!!) which transpeople could use.

It seems fairest to me.

deepwatersolo I’m glad I’m not the only one utterly confused.

I want to see women’s rights protected, I want to ensure women are not put at further risk.

But it seems every time I say that I’m wrong?

My literal brain is struggling to unpick this.

Hen, I am also conflicted about post srs males and access to women‘s spaces. On the one hand I feel it worked out well in the past (lived for a long time in a country, where it was the law for decades that srs made a man legally a woman, so it has been my ‚default‘), on the other hand, I get the arguments people are making on here.

A lot of lesbians hate this encroachment, as you can imagine.

Friends of mine were heavily into the “Get the L out” movement recently, what utterly appalling abuse they got. Rape threats as standard! From people saying they were women!

Well i don't think it is possible to say you are a woman if you have a penis. Many trans activists disagree with that though and say they are women, complete with 'girl dick'. Well actually they say far nastier things than that. But I'm not surprised your brain can't cope with it. Nor can mine. Because the whole thing is nonsensical

This genuinely completely and utterly minces my brain. The whole understanding of all the different views and wants and foot stamping and shouting is just so much noise that I can’t compute it all.

Why can’t there be a third space? I’d get behind that? Why is it women who have to be told to suck it up?

How is it possible to say you are a woman if you have a penis?

Not only do plenty of transactivists say this, they also claim to be lesbians. A lot of lesbians hate this encroachment, as you can imagine.

I cannot accept the dishonesty of it all and I am extremely worried about autistic girls being groomed into identifying as trans.

Yes yes yes to this! I heard of a particular group I won’t name on here deliberately targeting autistic children with a kind of “you don’t fit in do you? You don’t belong anywhere? You feel different don’t you? Come with us, we’ll show you what you really are and you’ll fit in.” rhetoric and it very nearly broke me. I thought it was just about the most wicked and pernicious thing I’ve ever read.

Awful. Fucking awful. Bastards.

girl dick

Oh my god. What the fuck?

I'm not autistic, but I find lying quite difficult. I'm pretty literal. "Easy" social lies aren't easy to me and accuracy in language matters a lot.

When I post here, for instance, I have to double check before I post that I haven't used the wrong pronouns. I look at people, sex them accurately, and then have to mentally police my automatic use of language.

Fortunately, in life I've never had to use a trans person's pronouns in their hearing. Everyone I know who knows the two transwomen in my life calls them by male pronouns when they're not around. I imagine that's fairly common.

How is it possible to say you are a woman if you have a penis?

Well i don't think it is possible to say you are a woman if you have a penis. Many trans activists disagree with that though and say they are women, complete with 'girl dick'. Well actually they say far nastier things than that. But I'm not surprised your brain can't cope with it. Nor can mine. Because the whole thing is nonsensical.

This is where I get uncomfortable, because a post operative transwoman (not a TRA) wants to live as a woman, without encroachment on women’s rights.

Unless a post op transwoman sticks to men's spaces they are encroaching on women's rights. And there are some transwomen who do show this respect. Miranda Yardley is the one I know best, but he's not the only one.

Transsexuals who insist on using women's spaces are part of the problem. Sadly for them, bottom surgery doesn't mean they pass any better. They still look male. So we're back to Schroedinger's rapist. If we're supposed to accept them in our changing rooms then there's nothing to stop any other male person from marching in.

It used to be that transsexuals were accepted in the ladies on an honour system. They didn't perve or linger and they didn't start awkward conversations. Now the whole dynamic has changed. Transsexuals have said how much they resent the harm done to public perception of them by the sudden influx of fetishists and cross dressers under Stonewall's umbrella.

The vast majority of transwomen keep their penis

Forgive me if I break guidelines MN, because I am genuinely confused and I mean absolutely no offence at all.

How is it possible to say you are a woman if you have a penis?

Because in my autistic brain that just does not make any sense at all.

Hang on, how can you transition to female without removal of the penis?

The vast majority of transwomen keep their penis.

Bolloxio that’s kind of what I mean, I’m so confused by it all and also concerned about inadvertently using the wrong terminology and getting banned

SpartacusAutisticus awesome name btw.

I don’t mean it does, I’m sorry if my crap articulation confused what I meant.

I think that there are people who genuinely have the condition which means they have some kind of need to present as a woman, and have treatment and procedures to enable that.

I also think there are men who abuse the loopholes in legislation for no other reason than to continue to dominate and oppress women.

Much as I agree both will always be biologically male, I think the intent of both are very different, and that is often lost.

I keep flip flopping between thinking post op transwomen should be treat differently to other men, and thinking no..they are still men so a third space is the only solution that works.

So I do understand where hen is coming from. Its quite hard to get out of the mindset of post op people are fine. But then I think..autogynephiles are post op sometimes when they take their fetish to huge extremes.

getting rid off genitals doesn’t miraculously turn one into the other sex

It just means one is still the same person and sex but don’t have genitals anymore

A man is still a man (adult human male) whether he has a penis or not

This is where I get uncomfortable, because a post operative transwoman (not a TRA) wants to live as a woman, without encroachment on women’s rights.

Someone with a penis, who wants to encroach on women’s rights and retain male privilege is something totally different to me.

There is only one sort of woman. No other description is needed.

So if a man transitions to female, but still retains their penis, do you think they are a man or a woman?

Hang on, how can you transition to female without removal of the penis?

You can’t, surely?

I’d consider a post operative transwoman quite differently to a person telling me they’re female but not having anything about them which makes them female .

man and woman if a woman transitions then she becomes a man and vice versa

So if a man transitions to female, but still retains their penis, do you think they are a man or a woman?