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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown

61 replies

leyat · 12/09/2018 18:10

So the initial findings just shared with ourselves and some others regarding the Scottish GRA consultation found that a whopping 40% of responses were against self ID, despite LGBT/trans orgs saying that only a very tiny minority were against the government's proposals.

Yes we would like a majority against but that was never going to be likely due to the nature of the issue and the fact that LGBT groups were rallying all their support behind supporting the proposals while most women had no idea it was even happening or was relevant to them. But we also never needed a majority against the proposals to challenge this legislation. We of course need to see a proper breakdown and how responses are weighted, but this is a win for us. This kind of legislation needs solid widespread support if it is to be argued that it will not impact on women and girls, and not even something like an unrepresentative consultation where trans activists went full force in getting all their support to respond to it - and one which did not at all address the possible impacts on women and girls - can give them that. And we can be sure that women's responses were not generic and went into great detail and evidence in terms of how our lives would be impacted, which is something the govt cannot ignore. The govt cannot say a substantial number of women's lives being affected is just fine cos most people that responded to the consultation don't care. It doesn't work like that. So great job everyone who worked on this. We did good.

*I tried to link the file but realise it's only images I can upload...

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 21:18

The Rape Crisis centres are pro-self ID.

I imagine it's got nothing whatsoever with the risk of losing government and charity funding for not being "inclusive of all genders" Hmm

It's a bit of a Hobson's Choice, that one. "Accept males, or close".

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:15

Where is that boatyard blues. Is that same person as allday breakfast ?

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 21:15

Actually, I'll amend that - men are affected too. Many men have gone on record as against self ID, and many are in support for single sex (not gender) spaces in toilets, hospitals etc.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:14

Oh yeps but Scotland was done deal,anyroads

Was hidden consults

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 12/09/2018 21:14

The numbers of people who object will only grow once word spreads - ok so not in time for the results, but this is encouraging.

IAmLurkacus · 12/09/2018 21:13

Thank you ADF international! That was a very good and compassionate response. I’m amazed as an atheist to find myself so grateful for the responses of Christian groups.

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 21:12

I'm in England and filled it in because I was (and am!) worrying about Scottish law setting some sort of precedent for the rest of the UK.

Vast majority of the UK are unaware of this self ID issue - it is very unpopular at a general population level (only 18% for self id in randomised studies).

This is how bad law is passed. Hard cases make bad law.

Self-selecting consultations where a small % of the population are benefitting - but there is a known and demonstrable impact on half the population (women and girls - sports, hospitals, toilets, changing rooms, girl guides, prisons etc) - but v few of those are aware of the consultation = recipe for disaster.

I would imagine they'll crow about 60% being pro self-ID and pass this law now. Sorry Scotland.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:06

What the fuck is RUK?

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:05

Och it’s a pile of hidden shite tbh.

Hidden from the people of Scotland

boatyardblues · 12/09/2018 21:03

Hang on a minute. Only 49% of respondents were from within Scotland? How does that work, that 51% of respondents are influencing policy from out with. What % of those resident in Scotland were for/against it?

I am in one of the other UK nations. I filled it in because it was unclear whether a Scottish self-ID GRC would have equivalent standing in the rest of the UK. As a woman using facilities in RUK, I don’t see why I shouldn’t get a say on self-ID through the back door. Certainly no less democratic than a tiny minority of Scots deciding for me. I was very up front and truthful in the demographic questions, so they can factor that in to the analysis.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:02

I mean feck w3 hav3 4 million ppl in my country

Look at the responses. Groups that is dependent on state

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 21:01

Agree it was already a done-deal. Scotland had already decided when they sneakily changed the definition of woman.

I bet there are so many people unaware of this too.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:00

Not the majority of th3 Scottish ppl. Most of them knew nowt about it

IAmLurkacus · 12/09/2018 20:59

WTF are ‘A&B hangouts’ group and why are they being allowed to groom children? Also WTF did we decide children making laws instead of responsible adults was a good idea?

I think I’m going to have to read the rest tomorrow, it’s enraging me!

AllDayBreakfast · 12/09/2018 20:59

So the majority (but not overwhelming majority) support it?

What percentage is needed for it to go through?

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 20:54

Hardly anyone in Scotland knew about this

We have a population of 4 million.

I guess less than 1% knew about this

Was already done deal

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 20:51

It's not comparable to gay marriage IMO.

Nobody was re-defining (and bastardising) language, biology, women's rights and children's safeguarding when campaigning for gay marriage.

Nobody was punching women or threatening to put them in gulags.

IAmLurkacus · 12/09/2018 20:51

WTAF is with some of those responses from some women’s aids??? Shock

Wanderabout · 12/09/2018 20:47

Impressive result for self ID when you compare it to the fact that public support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years.

Not really a relevant comparison as:
A. The right to gay marriage didn't remove anyone else's rights
B. This is a consultation not a poll. Polls show only 18% in support of Self-ID

sexnotgender · 12/09/2018 20:44

Also heartening given how loaded and confusing the questions were it’s not a bad result.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/09/2018 20:41

support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years

in surveys of self selecting respondents Zhora?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/09/2018 20:40

i've carefully typed out the link in your letter. here it is to spare others the pain!

www.gov.scot/topics/justice/law/17867/gender-recognition-review/review-of-gender-recognition-act-2004-list-of-orga

Zhora · 12/09/2018 20:35

Impressive result for self ID when you compare it to the fact that public support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years.

scotsheather · 12/09/2018 20:20

Majority voted 'do nothing' for children though I can see that being twisted as the majority actually voting for allowing children just split among the various means of. Parental application and capable child alone outnumber those opposed.

Wanderabout · 12/09/2018 20:16

The pro self-ID lobby have received HUGE funding from the Scottish government. Those campaigning against? Zero.

30 or 40 % responding to say no to the end of single sex spaces and provisions on a hidden consultation with a well funded well organised lobby is huge.

Polls show Scots overwhelmingly against Self-ID.

And on matters of consent, the party saying 'no' gets to decide.

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