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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If 'Woman' is redefined to mean 'feminine' or 'a feeling' what should we do?

60 replies

HamsterToast · 12/09/2018 12:39

Please don't think I'm being defeatist or a downer regarding all the great work being done to protect sex-based needs for women.

However, I find myself wanting to plan for what to do if we lose this. If 'woman' becomes legally defined as how you look or feel, and sex is taken out of it totally.

Some ideas I have had are:

  • Use 'female' instead of woman? Campaign for the inclusion of 'female' in legislation?
  • Openly and publicly demonstrate against females having to be feminine?
  • Provide advice about what to do if you are targeted by a predatory male in a female space?
  • Set up new spaces somehow?
  • Set up support for victims of assault in this context?
  • Grassroots organisations similar to the 60s?

We can always hope for the best but it might be good to plan for the worst and how we will move forward?

OP posts:
iamawoman · 12/09/2018 13:15

If the genderists have their way. Would that mean we would no longer be able to classify rapists as sex offenders
Gender offenders doesn't quite sound as serious.

deepwatersolo · 12/09/2018 13:14

The obvious path would be to gather all the statistics that demonstrate, how people with vaginas are discriminated against, disadvantaged and marginalized and start a movement that fights for special protections for this class of people, the PoV (People of vagina).

Grin Grin Grin

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 13:07

"means that discrimination on the basis of female biology would no longer be a criminal offence. So a company mysteriously never hiring biological females would no longer be challengable at tribunal."

realistically this hardly ever happens anyway
Especially since the rules around paying for tribunals were changes
thousands of pregnant women still get sacked for beign pregnant wevery year

agree it will be worse, just pointing out it's not exactly great at the moment!

BettyDuMonde · 12/09/2018 13:04

Riot.

anonymouseagain · 12/09/2018 13:03

The problem I foresee is that redefining woman as something other than "a female of any age", which would require an Equality Act amendment to change and the Govt have said they won't do but Stonewall et al want, means that discrimination on the basis of female biology would no longer be a criminal offence. So a company mysteriously never hiring biological females would no longer be challengable at tribunal. Sexual harassment would no longer be a crime and would be replaced by gendered harassment, which would be harder to define and prove, especially when a "woman" is perving on other women in changing rooms or showers. How can a "woman" harass other women on gendered grounds? ATM if said "woman" lacks a GRC, they can still be treated as a male under the law for such offences.

The flip side would be that, if sex discrimination is no longer a crime, we might (and IANAL so would appreciate a lawyer's eyes here) not be banned legally from making vulva-only spaces, provided that we promoted them as such and not as women's spaces. Of course, TRAs will complain that we cannot possibly know whether someone has a vulva without performing an intimate examination, ignoring the reality that I was in a room last night with 30-odd women and I could tell by looking at their faces that they all have vulvas, even the short-haired "butch" lesbians.

Pattern recognition is women's friend, for good reason.

We know that the GRA is the starter and the EA is the main course for TRAs (thanks Be North East for letting that slip) so we need to keep fighting even if we lose the GRA battle.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 13:00

clitoris!

Prostate was mentioned >> girls were referred to as "non prostate havers"

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 13:00

Note that leading activists for trans people are being variously revealed as

Sex offenders
Violent
What in the old days we would have described as "pervy weirdos"
People who advocate for "intergenerational" sexual relationships
There are big links to porn across this >> and it all seems very sex obsessed (surprise surprise there's a clue as to what sex people are)...
"Get tits early and suck cock" to schoolgirls
Encouraging girls to have anal sex and not mentioning prostate
Advocating for extreme porn to be legalised in the UK
And so on

These are not benign people TBH.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 12:56
  1. Activitists are not only wanting "woman" redefined but also "girl" and "female"
  2. Most women are not feminine and so most women will not be women nor will they be female
  3. New hierarchy (as mentioned on here years ago)
>Men >Women (who used to be men) >Cunty people > who will need a new descriptive >> "non people" seems like a frontrunner

Be advised that whatever is "won" or "given" will nto be enough. This is about the utter destruciton of the language of women's rights and feminism, all the protections for women and girls in law around the world, resulting in an inability to advocate for or raise awareness around issues that affect girls and women (see how the words "sex based oppression" are apaprently "TERFY", ditto women who focus on "gynocentric" issues) etc etc So the only women that feminists can and should work for are transwomen. The non poeple have their focus put back where it belongs, on men.

It's quite sraightforward. If we lose we are fucked. We lose all employment protections, any kind of efforts to increase our participation in eg politics, certain jobs, school subjects, our prizes and awards will all go, prisons will lock women in with rapists and so on and so forth. Women's sport will be over.

Note - this is not hyperbole, these things are all already happening.

UpstartCrow · 12/09/2018 12:53

I agree with Babdoc.
Be a Refusenik. Don't support or fund organisations that go along with gaslighting women, and start our own. We did it once, we can do it again.

Babdoc · 12/09/2018 12:48

Good grief, that’s giving up and rolling over for the patriarchy, OP!
I’m autistic, so I’m afraid I for one will never accept that I have to speak lies about what constitutes a woman, in order to please a group of men with an agenda.
You can actually refuse to go along with the whole Orwellian nightmare, you know?
If every woman in Britain insisted that women don’t have penises, supported the sticker campaign, and refused to accept women’s changing rooms being thrown open to all and sundry, what can they do? Put 35 million of us in prison for “hate speak”?
It’s about time women stopped being compliant in their own abuse and erasure and started drawing some lines. I bet men are not going to allow “transmen” in their spaces.

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