The term "men in dresses"

just be nice ladies and everything will be ok. 🙄

Nicky wire in a dress. Gorgeous. (And male).

I'm getting to the point of past caring at this stage, tbh. I'll abide by obstructionist rules about what terms I can use, and I'm not going to be obnoxious for the sake of it, but if other women are fed up of the mendacious goadiness and choose to respond in a manner that makes them come across to some as misbehaving women, I'm not really inclined to tell them off.

As it happens, I'm ok with discussing the broader point brought up by the OP, because I think it reveals a lot more about their prejudices than anyone else's, but if other women feel they want to respond differently and couldn't care less what pursed lips it may produce, I'm ok with that.

Don’t really want the media etc to see a thread that has bullying by silencing and ignoring, by mumsnetters.

Seriously! Did we tell the OP to stop talking or grab their iPad/phone and run off with it? Talk about an over reaction.

The breakfast nonsense was just that. It didn’t really get in the way, it just looked a bit silly.

No need to delete any of it. Left up it would have done little more than caused an eye roll. Taken down, it looks far worse.

Really @MNHQ where’s your common sense gone? 🙄

You're ok with it when its women who need women only spaces and services.

I disagree. I didn’t report the thread, but it did not show Mumsnet in a good light. Don’t really want the media etc to see a thread that has bullying by silencing and ignoring, by mumsnetters.

Mrbatmun, I don't disagree that the breakfast chat was deployed surprisingly early, but as I said, I think it was probably borne out of frustration due to the OPs previous and current phrasing and posting behaviour.

I know a transwoman. I think they would feel very upset if someone were to call them a man in a dress to their face.

As an aside, off the back of this thread I have just discovered my new favourite YouTuber in John Maclean! Brilliant!

Every single thing that Nicknamesalltaken has said.

In other words. Get a grip!

Sorry, didnt mean to put 'off' in capitals there!

I agree that the breakfast derailing is a bit OFF. Its easy enough to discuss the question in the OP.

TGLWGH.

@hopemumsnet @MNHQ

The trouble is, by deleting the breakfast chat you are making this thread look more controversial than it is.

Lots of deletions make it look as through a proper bun fight has taken place. Yes, I see that you’ve posted, but at first glance it looks really bad.

You’re doing more harm than good and making yourself look bad.

Easy enough to ignore the breakfast chat and carry on a conversation. But you’ve made it look like you’ve needed to be really heavy handed and that’s not great.

I literally ran into Evan Dando once in the backstage area of Reading Festival. He was coming in as I was going out.

He was a man in a dress.

Nothing untoward happened. All was fine. He went on to do his Lemonheads thing and I watched and it was great.

Nobody was lied to. Yay.

Hopemumsnet

Could you transfer the breakfast chit chat to another thread, possibly called breakfast chit chat?

Seriously HopeMumsnet. Since when has recipes been against the rules? Are they classed as ‘literal violence’ now? 🤣

Men in dresses isn't an insult, at least not in my eyes. I'm fine with anyone wearing whatever they want.

One of my DH's oldest and best friends came out to me as a cross-dresser this weekend just gone. It was a surprise as I'd never seen any sign of it in the 25 years I've known him, but gender nonconformity isn't a big deal in the circles we move in so it certainly isn't a problem. We had a bit of a chat about it. (He really wanted to talk about dresses, but as I live in jeans & tshirts I wan't really the right person to have that conversation with!) He emphatically doesn't think he's a woman, and doesn't want to be a woman. He just likes dressing up sometimes.

Under Stonewall's definition he is now trans, except he isn't, he's just a bloke (occasionally) in a dress. Non-issue.

Wear what you want, just don't impose your values and stereotypes on me.

Men in dresses is no more of an insult than women in trousers, unless you think women in trousers is also an insult OP?
A man is an adult human male.
A dress is a garment of clothing.
The two things are as related and unrelated as a dog is a four legged furry thing with a tail, and a ball is a spherical playing object for sport, or a window is an aperture in the wall for letting in light and allowing a view to the outside, and curtains are large pieces of cloth that cover a window.

David Bowie was a man in a dress and he looked fucking amazing. All these ‘woke’ twits think they invented men in makeup and dresses. How dare the OP say ‘man in a dress’ is an insult. Only a bigot would say that. Check your privilege, OP!

Although I have to admit in my younger days I used to date men in dresses. They were quite attractive. But they never pretended to be what they were not, and they did not insist they were women. They were men. (In dresses)

I think women are entitled to women only spaces and services, and should not be excluded from them. I am woman inclusionary, and I'm not sorry.

Go away and do something useful. Deal with male violence as ruthlessly as you police women.

I wouldn't go up to a random transwoman in the street and say 'hey, you're just a man in a dress' because that would be unkind, and also I wouldn't go up to a woman and say 'hey, you're a woman in trousers' either

However, when transwomen start trying to take over women's rights to their own spaces, their own refuges, their own sports, everything, then the time comes to turn around and say 'look, you're not a woman, you're a man in a dress'. If that is hurtful, well that's tough shit I'm afraid. A man's right to be denied objective reality does not trump a woman's right to single sex provision in the appropriate arenas. Sorry.