The term "men in dresses"

PERF

I know! And in a bloody national newspaper.

It's the sort of thing you'd expect in a ranty blog, not mainstream media.

Shocking to read, but entirely unsurprising.

Seriously, when an obvious GF turns up and starts hoovering, the recipe talk has become a sufficiently female socialised nice way to point out to other people on the thread not to get sucked in, and to be clear that no, they don't intend to be used. Now apparently either we can be used like good girls to dance when a TRA turns up and demands, or we can shut up and cede the space. This is what self ID looks like. Comply or leave.

What, seriously, is left for women to do here?

Exactly the point. Breakfast is the way we indicate our suspicions that we have a GF - because we're not allowed to make the direct accusation.

What, seriously, is left for women to do here

Personally, I think we should simply ignore - but that's just me. Don't feed a fire....

Don’t really want the media etc to see a thread that has bullying by silencing and ignoring, by mumsnetters.

Because MNetters must behave nicely while being abused.

@MNHQ come on. We're not supposed to point out on a thread when someone is obviously not posting in good faith. FWR members are frequently being used by TRAs for screenshots (mostly of ridiculous things the TRAs have said, often randomly, then pretended what they said was said by a MNetter). We are held to very strict limits on what we're allowed to say, which includes the truth.

Seriously, when an obvious GF turns up and starts hoovering, the recipe talk has become a sufficiently female socialised nice way to point out to other people on the thread not to get sucked in, and to be clear that no, they don't intend to be used. Now apparently either we can be used like good girls to dance when a TRA turns up and demands, or we can shut up and cede the space. This is what self ID looks like. Comply or leave.

What, seriously, is left for women to do here?

This thread is crazy. Obvious troll starts goady post, women show their disdain with food related posts - those silly women get called bullied & deleted. confused
Did anyone really think the op was genuine or kind? Really? No, it's the women who are only allowed to speak when we meet the feminine standards of kindness.
Fuck. That

I agree.

This thread is crazy. Obvious troll starts goady post, women show their disdain with food related posts - those silly women get called bullied & deleted. confused
Did anyone really think the op was genuine or kind? Really? No, it's the women who are only allowed to speak when we meet the feminine standards of kindness.
Fuck. That

I tend to agree. Just because someone has a long history of posting does not mean that they are not also a goady fucker and I found the OP fucking goady.

Henceforth all clothing should be referred to as fabric.

Leg fabric or arm fabric to distinguish.

I think the bar for bullying here is set pretty low.

Sobbing: "I was bullied. Horribly bullied."

"OMG! What did those awful women do? Call you names? Doxxed you? I know, they must have threaten you with physical harm and told you to stop talking."

"They talked about breakfast."

" ... "

Trans excluders...

I can see the way things are going, we are going to have to say non-trousers.

Probably because we all know that anything which is usually associated with women and girls automatically becomes an insult when applied to men and boys.

Ugh. Should be 'get called bullies '

Also, I just had nice chicken Korma on rice. Yum. My brain is not liking the idea of sweet avocado... nope.

Yeah I'm loving these pics, I really did enjoy the bowie one. The pose, the black and white, the scenery. Yep, nice.
Not such a fan of that Van Ness one, but he looks happy!

This thread is crazy. Obvious troll starts goady post, women show their disdain with food related posts - those silly women get called bullied & deleted.
Did anyone really think the op was genuine or kind? Really? No, it's the women who are only allowed to speak when we meet the feminine standards of kindness.
Fuck. That.

‘Trans-excluders’ I just can’t take that seriously - it sounds so utterly silly. Not one that’ll catch on, I’m afraid, OP. Back to the drawing board.

As for the term ‘men in dresses’ I’ve never used it myself. Men can wear whatever the fuck they like, so long as it’s not offensive.

The term is pretty clearly a reference to male socialisation and privilege not being cancelled out by sticking on a dress. A fact which is being made abundantly clear by any number of transwomen in the public eye right now.

I have a son who doesn't fit in with gender stereotypes. I am absolutely fine with it. Do you have children OP?

Please don't deny my lived experience. It's literal violence, makes me suicidal etc etc

Trans-excluders like to say that they're absolutely fine with boys who don't fit in with gender stereotypes.

No one here is a trans-excluder, so you've failed at the first hurdle.

And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes.

This is slightly confusing. Are you contradicting your imagined gotcha from your first sentence? Or, are you trying to separate yourself from the intelligent and thoughtful women of FWR, as some kind of "please don't attack me when I fuck up TRAs, because I know you will, I've seen you do it before" gambit?

But I don't think that is true of all of you.

So, here you're straightforwardly contradicting your opening imagined gotcha.

Why is "man in a dress" used as an insult by so many of you?

It's not. As has been comprehensively shown.

So, now a question for you.

Why do you post unfathomably ridiculous threads and then not come back to discuss/dispute/apologise when you've had your arse handed to you? It makes you look either slightly incapable or, at worst, a bit of a bridge dweller, which seems like a strange look to go for as you're trying to get quotes to put on Twitter.

The trouble is, by deleting the breakfast chat you are making this thread look more controversial than it is.

Totally - I was very intrigued to find out what guidelines had been broken. Didn't know there were porridge guidelines now.

It is shit like this [Jaden Smith wearing dresses] that gets us REAL transgender people killed. Thanks

1. Dear TRAs, where is your evidence for this?
2. Dear TRAs, by what mechanism do men in dresses get trans people killed? Intuitively, I would expect men in dresses to reduce risk, by normalising dress-wearing for biological males.
3. Male violence, not male dress-wearing, is what kills trans people and women alike.

I would not feel the same if Bowie used the dress to claim womanhood. Shon Faye looks great in a dress. But in Shon's case I see the misogyny first, IYSWIM. The misogyny turns Shon's attire into a costume. Whereas in Bowie's case he's just wearing what he wants and happens to look great.

Twiggy Ramirez is one bloke who looks fantastic in a dress...

Bertrand. Ahem. I genuinely do think Bowie looks better in that dress than a suit. No idea why or what that says about me Maybe it's a combination of the aesthetics and 'so what?' ness of it?

Why are you all getting your posts deleted!! Isn't it 3 strikes and out.
Men in dresses are men in dresses but they are not women. Isn't it conforming to gender sterotypes that if you are a man who prefers to act feminine, dress feminine you feel you must be a woman? Apart from those who have sex dysphoria, why if you don't have a psychological condition as many transgender people claim , do they feel that because they prefer how the opposite sex looks/is treated in society that they would rather claim to be a member of the opposite sex than than actually challenge the stereotypes of how men / women should look and behave. Now that would be brave...

Datun, that article is astounding. The level of misogyny is breathtaking.

Terfsup What about if the trousers are avocado green. Dilemma

I can see the way things are going, we are going to have to saying non-trousers.

All beautiful and masculine imo