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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Excellent Sarah Ditum blog post

27 replies

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap · 10/09/2018 12:36

sarahditum.com/2018/09/10/six-years-in-the-gender-wars/

OP posts:
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arranfan · 11/09/2018 23:45

butterflyrabbit wrote: Less than 5% retain their male genitalia? So most do have surgery? Or did you mean the other way around

Other way round.

FPFW discuss the statistics that exist for the UK:

In 2011, GIRES estimated that only 20% of the UK transgender population are likely to seek medical treatment for their condition at some stage...[An estimate is] there are 200,000 male-born transgender people in the UK will no body modifications whatsoever. Of the 50,000 trans-identifying males that do seek medical treatment most of these would be expected to be undergoing hormone treatment and/or breast implants. Only a very small proportion of this 20% will have genital reconstruction surgery.

No one knows for sure how many transwomen keep their penis, but there are fewer than 10 surgeons in the UK who can do the relevant operation. Even if they each performed one operation every single day this would still only represent an absolute max of 3,500 surgeries each year. The actual number performed is likely to be very much smaller than this. An estimate of just a few hundred operation each year would not be unreasonable.

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Ereshkigal · 11/09/2018 23:32

Sorry, realise the way I responded was confusing! Yes, less than 5% have surgery so more than 95% retain.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 11/09/2018 22:32

Less than 5% have surgery.

butterflyrabbit · 11/09/2018 22:29

Less than 5% retain their male genitalia? So most do have surgery? Or did you mean the other way around

Ereshkigal · 11/09/2018 09:35

These figures are a few years old but they are the ones used by government in general.

Ereshkigal · 11/09/2018 09:34

GIRES figures are based on trans umbrella people being 1% of population so 650k and according to the evidence they gave to the trans Inquiry 30k have "sought medical treatment" (both sexes). That would be other surgery and gender clinic support as well as SRS. It's a tiny tiny number.

Ereshkigal · 11/09/2018 09:30

Based on the trans community's own figures it's less than 5%.

Cwenthryth · 11/09/2018 08:06

Just reading through (and following links - ‘twill take some time!) to support the statement ‘the majority of transwomen retain their male genitalia’ she links to an article on a 2016 survey of US plastic surgeons. Does anyone know of UK figures for the same?

GlomOfNit · 10/09/2018 23:14

This is absolutely superb, and now my go-to piece when I want a friend to know about the whole shitstorm. Well done and THANKS, Sarah Ditum!

LightofaSilveryMoon · 10/09/2018 23:07

Very good read. Thank you, OP, for posting the link

Same as a previous poster has said - this, from the article:

There is no such thing as gender identity.

Sex matters.

When we pretend sex doesn’t matter, women lose.

newtlover · 10/09/2018 22:59

excellent article

Anlaf · 10/09/2018 21:36

(aye, i used to hover approvingly on Jezebel back in the day, until the no-platforming of Germaine G woke me up)

WhereAreWeNow · 10/09/2018 21:27

Great blog. I really like Sarah Ditum's writing. I hadn't realised she was previously on the other side either but I guess we all were at some point. Or most of us anyway. I can't say I'd given it much thought at all until about 5 years ago.

Not sure about making the link to anti-semitism but apart from that I think the essay is spot on.

AnchorMum · 10/09/2018 21:20

Excellent essay. Written with clarity, compassion and humanity.

Anlaf · 10/09/2018 21:19

vv interesting piece

From my own arguing, I've discovered that Sarah is MAX TERF NO.1 in many people's eyes, and they will discount anything she says (and you say, if you quaite reasonably share her excellent work).

She gets a huge amount of shit and I applaud her for sticking it out. I also didn't know she was prev "on the other side", tho!

butterflyrabbit · 10/09/2018 19:57

Excellent article

Ereshkigal · 10/09/2018 19:55

Great article. Soul searching but defiant.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/09/2018 19:26

I was particularly struck by this passage:

There are 125 trans prisoners in England and Wales. 60 of them are sex offenders. Now, trans activists will have to decide: either being trans correlates with being a sex offender, or (and this is transparently the likelier option) sex offenders are identifying themselves as trans in the hope of gaining access to women they can victimise. What activists cannot do any longer is claim that no one would identify as trans for nefarious purposes. Clearly, they do.

NotTerfNorCis · 10/09/2018 18:30

Great piece. I wasn't sure about bringing Israel into it, as that's a very different issue, but otherwise very good.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 10/09/2018 17:04

YY to every word of that

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 10/09/2018 15:54

It’s an excellent article.

Haworthia · 10/09/2018 14:30

Just finished reading it. Thank you, Sarah.

The conclusion is really powerful:

There is no such thing as gender identity.

Sex matters.

When we pretend sex doesn’t matter, women lose.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 10/09/2018 13:32

That was excellent. Thank you, Sarah Ditum.

LucretiaBourgeois · 10/09/2018 13:28

Bumping. Great article - thanks for flagging.

Juells · 10/09/2018 12:56

those like Caitlyn Jenner who cheerfully concede that dressing femininely has an erotic kick (“dressing up like this is the equivalent of having sex with myself, male and female at the same time”).

Oh yuck, go and have a wank in whatever clothes you want, and leave the word woman alone