Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

And actually, I guess we’re at 3 due to the recent Carlos DeLaCruz case?

Not heard about the prison arrangements there though?

How on earth can the authorities discriminate between the taras and the Marie deans of this world?

Genuine question, what is the difference?

If non-binary becomes a thing they won’t even have to say they are women...

Thanks Popchyk - I will amend my mental list to 2 (1 sex offfender).
Neither want to be in the Male estate, so the ‘‘separate trans area in the birth estate’ works for female born prisoners.

Except there isn’t enough of a demand to provide seperate areas so I guess they just require staff that are trained to understand any additional challenges their trans status throws up?

"Frankly, who wouldn't Self-ID if it got them the prospect of special treatment and even home-based release?"

Well exactly. You don't have to undergo any medical treatment or surgery, you can change your name to hide your crimes and then be lauded as brave and stunning. There is no downside at all to self-identifying as a woman. When you get out of prison then you can change your name to a new male one and then start your life again.

Who would want to self-identify as a sex offender when there is a positive alternative of self-identifying as a woman?

The word "woman" will soon come to mean all female people plus male sex offenders. Sex offences will be seen as something that primarily women commit against women and children. I give it 3 years.

Seperate trans spaces in the estate of the birth sex is most reasonable, although difficult in terms of keeping people near their families etc.

^^ This - however, given the lamentable state of the prison estates, it wouldn't take many Self-Id'd prisoners before the prisons literally couldn't house them. Men's prison estate is already groaning at the seams.

And, if they can't be housed, other arrangements such as release under house arrest would have to be considered. They'd reach that point very quickly.

Frankly, who wouldn't Self-ID if it got them the prospect of special treatment and even home-based release?

Betty,

I think Clare Taylor (now going by Taylor as identifying as a man apparently) is still in a women's prison. Taylor does not want to go to a man's prison.

crime

link to campaign to get Taylor parole

Came across it when looking for the background on Jess Bradley. Who wants all trans prisoners to be released.

Some prisons do have specialist wings for trans people - there are 12 transwomen in HMP Littlehey, for example.

However, Littlehey is also almost all older sex offenders, and is on the other side of the country to Tara, who only served a short sentence.

Seperate trans spaces in the estate of the birth sex is most reasonable, although difficult in terms of keeping people near their families etc.
Still, it’s not women’s work to figure out. As far as we know there is only one female born trans person (Gayle Newland) in prison and they seem to be sticking with their female name and pronouns (presumably the last thing they want is to be in with Male sex offenders).

Tara should never have been sent to a men's jail. I do wonder why (given the media attention she's had and how confident and assertive she is) she didn't mention the alleged rapes before (I can only see groping allegations).
I hope she makes the complaint to the police and its investigated.

However there needs to be separate facilities to house trans prisoners. How on earth can the authorities discriminate between the taras and the Marie deans of this world?

Interesting to note that as well as Press for Change, TELI tweet has signposted towards 'Women in Prisons' as an expert source along with themselves and Press for Change.

Its a long established charity:
"We support women to avoid and exit the criminal justice system and campaign for the radical changes needed to deliver support services and justice for women."

One would hope that a charity committed to would indeed be an important voice and hopefully one which would be at the forefront of advocating for those women in prisons who have been sexually attacked, 'intimidated' etc by male-born prisoners.
www.womeninprison.org.uk/about/who-we-are.php

List of Trustees some clear links to Garden Court Chambers and NUS (LSE/Goldsmiths)
www.womeninprison.org.uk/staff/trustees.php

Welcome Greenwitch, MN does, wonderfully, allow discussion of these issues. However there are guidelines we are asked to adhere to which include respecting pronouns, although more things have been left to stand when it comes to convicted violent offenders etc (ie there is some flexibility in context). But have a look at the Mumsnet statement on moderation in particular with regard to trans rights so you can avoid having posts deleted for pronoun wrongthink.

Just caught up with this on iPlayer - without Tara’s final flourish, alas. It was Tara who initially ‘peak transed’ me although I don’t think we were calling it that then! Interesting to see how things are going for Tara. Has there ever been claims of ‘3 rapes in a week’ made before? That’s a pretty serious and shocking allegation, if this is the first time it’s been made on live TV, will it be followed up? Should we contact the prison that held Tara and ask them to look into this? The graphic allegations are a matter of public record now.

Its awful because one’s natural inclination is to support (#webelieveyou) when these kind of disclosures are made, but there is a pending case and TH is, no doubt, suing for damages. I couldn’t help wondering “why now?” when it was not mentioned during the media coverage & appeals at the time. It was also rather detailed for daytime TV.

I imagine the MoJ has some good lawyers who will be able to take Tara’s case apart quite effectively.

Welcome Green! Despite the name, there's lots of women on MN who aren't mothers or who are parents to grown up children. Despite what some might think, we dont' just talk about prams and nappies (and apparently that is disgusting, and we should stick to fluffy mummy topics)

Hudson was released from prison in 2015 (her sentence was quite short - something like 12 weeks IIRC). She is now suing the MoJ over her treatment and the case is due to come to court later this month. TH currently lives in Amsterdam and earns a living doing somewhat dubious sex things, apparently still with a "seven inch surprise"

Thank you Upstart Crow.

I have now sent an Email to Victoria Derbyshire.

I have also scanned the article from Daily Telegraph which is sheer ludicrous propaganda
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/tara-hudson-the-harrowing-reality-of-being-a-trans-woman-in-an-a/

Harrowing indeed! there is not one word of sympathy for the victim of his violent assault, and it must have been very serious indeed for him to get 12 weeks in prison as a first offender.
There's not one word about the danger to women if this deranged hooligan is dumped on us.
It's all sob-sob for his terrible "plight" because he's a cross-dresser in a men's prison. If he has any problem it's of his own making.
They could solve the problem by dressing him in a prison uniform and cutting his bleached hair off. He certainly shouldn't be allowed jewellry or makeup in there. It's meant to be a prison.

Found it!

BBC Two - Victoria Derbyshire - Contact us
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05qqk5c/contact
Home · Episodes · Clips · Contact Us. Contact details. twitter. @VictoriaLIVE. facebook. www.facebook.com/VictoriaDerbyshire. email. [email protected] ...

Thanks, I have watched the clip now.
So even if we are banned from Twitter we can respond by text or Email?
I will look for the number and the Email address.
This is a rare chance to discuss these sort of issues, which the mainstream media are mostly turning a blind eye to.

Check out the post by thewitchofwentworth, just above mine.

Thanks, Upstart Crow.
But the swearing was edited out?
What prison is Tara Hudson actually in?

GreenWi82481196 Welcome to Mumsnet

By the way, I have got children, although they are grown up, so I hope it's all right to register on Mumsnet.

Brilliant. Thanks for this. I was on Twitter (as Green Witch) until last week, when my account was suddenly closed down for tweeting this about another infamous TRA
"
Green Witch
@GreenWi82481196
Is this the guy who is getting women's refuges shut down in Canada? Ryan a.k.a "Lisa" Kreut? I find that tweets referring to him cannot be re-tweeted for some reason. [...]!

That was it. That was all they objected to.
It is great to find the discussion about self-ID still going on here. If BBC2 gave airtime to Tara Hudson and he made false claims about being raped in prison, that is big news and it should be spread around as fast as we can.

Its been uploaded to YouTube;

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=eaDibfKnKbc

Tara Hudson is flat out lying about being raped 3 times in 7 days in prison. If you go back to 2015 and look at articles from the time you'll see no mention of rape or sexual assault, and this was when they were trying to get Tara moved to a female prison.

Then there is this article from 2016 which describe Tara's experiences in a male prison, again no mention of rape, but rather a private cell and being closely watched over by guards.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/tara-hudson-the-harrowing-reality-of-being-a-trans-woman-in-an-a/

^“The first couple of days I was locked up when all the other prisoners were out, so the guards could make sure I was safe and wasn’t going to be attacked.

“When the media attention started, the guards were suddenly on high risk. They decided to turn up with a bag of knickers and some bras and moisturiser, and then moved me to another cell, because some people had been shouting things at me.

“At the time I didn’t see it as harassment or aggression – it was just ‘we love you’, ‘we’re your fan club’, ‘try and come onto our wing’ and so on. But the guards were really cautious about it. I moved cells three times in seven days.”^