Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

First image of Tara she was smiling smugly.

First words were cracked as she managed to squeak out "I'm sorry, it makes me emotional"

Last image was of her flipping the bird.

I assume she'd regained her voice, but, the quick fingered sound technician protected us from her bellowing tones.

Comedy gold.

Karen White has now pleaded guilty to four counts of rape.

So no "alleged" about it.

from Times today:
"Karen White, 52, a former drag artist from Manchester previously known as Stephen Wood, then David Thompson, claimed to be transgender to the authorities. Despite knowing that White had undergone no physical changes and was a paedophile on remand for multiple rapes with a long record of sexual and violent offences against women, the authorities permitted a transfer to HMP New Hall, a prison near Wakefield with a mother-and-baby unit. White committed the assaults within days of the move and was transferred back to a men’s prison.

The government is holding consultations on proposals to allow people to “self-declare” their legal gender. Campaigners fear that opportunists will exploit the changes to gain access to protected female spaces.

Neighbours at Elphin Court in Mytholmroyd, West Yorkshire, including a transgender woman, recalled how White made little effort to transition. “David just walked into his flat one day as David and walked out the next day as Karen,” she said. When an elderly man used the pronoun “he”, White called the police to report it as a hate crime.

The neighbours said that White “ruled Elphin Court with fear”, threatening an elderly disabled woman and setting off fire alarms, and had been found guilty of stabbing a resident." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rapist-karen-white-in-women-s-jail-was-trans-faker-lbcwjp8jc

Will have to watch again to see what was said

I reckon Tara shouted it aggressively but the sound had been cut by then.

I agree. Given the finger and the facial expression, I somewhat doubt it was sotto voce.

Oi oi flora
Oi oi Lang
Sonorous tunes indeed 😂😂

Oi oi, littlbrowndog, I am smiling at the 'special sad voice'. So very true. Apart from the bare facts at the beginning, I don't think she referenced the victims at all, did she? And she also said the first guest 'alleges' Karen White was a rapist, but I thought White had now admitted it?

TELI are throwing all their toys out of the pram

The TELI twitter account has been increasingly emotive in recent weeks

"Trans Equality Legal Initiative
The Trans Equality Legal Initiative is a new initiative aiming to provide the ultimate forum for the discussion of trans rights in the United Kingdom. Covering important legal areas such as healthcare, education, justice and international protection, the initiative will be at the forefront of trans rights, bringing together experts and activists from across the legal and LGBT spheres.

It is our belief that strategic litigation is a very important tool in the advancement of trans rights, and this will be at the forefront of our efforts as we explore the various issues facing the trans community."

Our Vision
The Trans Equality Legal Initiative works to build a collective and strategic response to the widespread and entrenched discrimination and inequality experienced by members of the trans community. The founders came together with this aim after the Government released the 'Transgender Equality Inquiry'. This was the first Government Inquiry into the discrimination and abuse suffered by members of the trans community in the UK. The report outlined the systemic discrimination faced by this community in almost every aspect of their private and public lives.

Through TELI, we hope to bring together human rights lawyers, third sector trans activist organisations, academics, equality and diversity experts and members of the trans, non-binary and queer community to pool our knowledge, expertise and skill base to inform both strategic litigation and to assist in lobbying for clear and concrete measures to secure equality and safety for members of the trans community. We also hope to consolidate expertise in this area of law to help inform practitioners and activists." (continues)
www.teli.org.uk/our-vision/

known co-founders were Jess Bradley, Tara Hudson and Michelle Brewer (lawyer originally due to answer questions about GRA at WEP conference)

Tara Hewitt describes TELI's formation in a 2016 workshop for HCPs about 'trans people & cancer'
Interestingly in light of the discussion on Victoria Derbyshire, Tara Hewitt makes clear that being trans is not about surgery and includes fetishistic cross-dressers etc:

Yeah and where was Victoria’s special sad voice and face for the women that were sexually assaulted.

This! My term for Victoria's special sad voice is Sonorous Tones R Us.

It was a bar man's teeth Hudson broke with a headbutt. So girly.
Also has 12 previous convictions including one for battery.
Not someone I would want to be anywhere near.
Interesting Tara mentioned if they commit more crimes, with a long record like that, it's almost if they know they can't help themselves.

Managed to get an eye’s open screen grab too.

Off to learn how to make gifs...

Yeah and where was Victoria’s special sad voice and face for the women that were sexually assaulted.

Nowhere to be seen or heard.

Jeeps they rushed that bit of programme through

Yeps I think Tara went ballistic when nic said about Tara should be in the 3rd space so not akknowledging Tara’s femaleness

Yes, it was that last point of women should not be expected to pick up the risk and transgender wings being suggested that set Tara off from the previously held 'Im just as shocked as you, this is awful' line into a temper tantrum.

I expect memeing to commence forthwith.

Interesting to consider Tara Hudson's rage and the focus on it being made difficult for her.
No mention or recognition of the four women who have been sexually assaulted by White.

I believe Tara was imprisoned for hitting (head-butting?) a bouncer and breaking his teeth.

Tara advertises their 7 inch surprise on escort sites.

I recall another prisoner saying that Tara was feted in prison.

Tara would like to make a distinction between transwomen like Tara (merely violent) and transwomen who have been convicted of rape. Tara lost her rag when Nic suggested that categories should be based on sex, not crime. Tara is suing the prison service. I can't quite remember what for, whether it's compensation for being a male prison, or to change the law.

Tara trades on the fact that Tara can look female, with the I'm going to cry and graphic language. Tara's whole reasoning is would you expect someone who looks like this to be in a male prison.

TELI are throwing all their toys out of the pram because they weren't asked on the programme a despite theory extensive experience of advising on housing trans prisoners. Funny they don't reflect that this may have contributed to the problem and defending the rights of rapists to have a ready supply of victims isn't necessarily a good look. Plus the usual defamatory remarks about fair play for women.

So a woman goes on telly to discuss women's rights and is sworn at by a man. Just seeing Tara from that interview I would not like to be in an intimate space with them, and that's without knowing their criminal history.

These men (yes, Tara Hudson is male) just cannot hide their male aggression can they?

I missed most of the interview, who was the other person on the screen?

Apologies policy change was 2016 (I misheard)

Tara Hudson draws distinction between the 'men' who are exploiting the policies (refers to Francis Crook commen) & 'real transgender people like myself, who transitioned as a child and have lived my entire adult as a woman. 'They are making it difficult for people like me'

TH says 'must have operations' 'completely inappropriate and dangerous' shouldnt be allowed to transition behind bars.'

TH describes being raped/sexually assaulted in prison, having to leave the country as a consequence. "it has ruined my life" "should I have to go through that again if I commit another crime?'

NW should be based on birth sex or transgender provision.

NW says it is male violence which Tara has described, Tara should be protected but women shouldn't have to pick up the risk.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-could-be-moved-6734656

Tara didn’t like being in a woman’s prison much either:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-caged-male-prison-6970102

Dr Nic - I think I walked past you on Regent St this morning at about 8.40. I took a double take at your t-shirt, and thought - yeah! a fellow GC woman. I wa going to talk to you but I wimped out!

Wish I’d looked a bit closer at you - If I’d seen who it was I’d have definitely stopped! Really annoyed with myself now

Haven’t seen the programme yet, but sounds great. Thank you!

Think it was 2016 rowan but not sure

Yes it was - PSI 17/2016 The Care and Management of Transgender Offenders. Available here:

www.justice.gov.uk/offenders/psis/prison-service-instructions-2016

Tara also mouthed ‘fuck you’

I reckon Tara shouted it aggressively but the sound had been cut by then.

Nic did really well!

Thanks, Tara. You were most helpful.

Bit a good move from Tara at the end but the stuff about not allowing men to be moved to women’s prisons it even to transition in prison was good (not good for female prisoners if moved or good for them either. What a place to go through such a change!)

It was good to see someone against self-ID get a fair go and be questioned as though they were being reasonable. So often the line of questioning is attack.

It was always going to something like this happening to get people to think, “oh, maybe we shouldn’t be so unquestioning.” Actual women getting harmed to get people to think.