Sophie Walker's speech tweet

A couple of months ago it looked as if WEP would be taken over by TRAs. I couldn’t see any way the conference wouldn’t come out in support of self ID. I’m sure TRAs we’re equally confident, whatever gloss they’re putting on things now.

I had written off Sophie Walker and I’m still sceptical as to whether she’s done enough to hold them off but she seems to have listened and shown some leadership and at least take a peek over the parapet, which is more than the vast majority of politicians have done. So I’m watching.

My GC friend who was there was impressed with it and relayed it positively to me as a GC feminist

Fair enough. I will watch with interest

Sophie is very brave, I think. I am sure that the amount of people who suddenly can see the need for debate is linked to the amount of TRAs that are being 'brought down' and the amount of people who are starting to speak out about it all. But still, Sophie has opened herself up for a world of threats and harassment. I think she said as much as she can, tbh.

I think it's a massive step forward for them.

I left the Lib Dems because debate isn't allowed on this topic. I don't mind having other members disagreeing with me on policy but to shut down debate is not something I can have done in my name.

So, today, I joined the WEP to be part of the debate - because at least it's a place where that debate can now be had.

Yes, it's frustrating that we have to do this, that a party called the women's equality party has to have a debate about what a woman is but it's the best on offer.

I don't think I'm helping the case by sitting back and waiting for other people to have that debate on behalf.

I liked it enough possibly to join WEP, but will wait to hear the formal response to the GRA consultation

I have won the first big vote of the day. We will not be railroaded into taking a vote on whether trans women are women.

This implies that GC members were "railroading" this vote which is absolutely not the case. Listen to other TRAs who wanted the vote to go ahead as planned. Can't these people stop bullshitting for one second? Also this person didn't "win" anything.

Ultimately I think it was a fudge that won't please anyone. I also note she said she didn't make the entire speech at the debate so I wonder what was cut. Because it's a speech that could appear very different depending on where it was edited . . . and if people were pleased with it in RL, they probably won't go on Twitter to pick up the more nuanced version.

I don't know. My GC friend who was there was impressed with it and relayed it positively to me as a GC feminist.

Glosswitch:
When women start to voice their concerns about gender identity politics, I do wish they'd realise you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. Every woman you consider less balanced and strategic has been where you are now.

twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1038786041346437120?s=19

When I visit A Woman's Place or Fairplay for Women I'm convinced. I know they are campaign groups and not political parties, but their stall is set out and I can see it clearly. Their words are powerful, defined.

We need to know that evidence from any source, including Stonewall, is scrutinised appropriately. We must be confident that there are scientific value judgements that interpret the quality and significance of the evidence available; social value judgements that (crudely) relate more to society rather than science.

We achieve this through Procedural Justice of the committee work. Any processes are transparent; the reasons for any decisions are explicit. There must be "accountability for reasonableness".

Others bodies such as NICE committees work explicitly with these conditions and with procedural justice at the heart of their accountability and decision-making.

WEP can do it if it chooses. And, under the circumstances, it would be inappropriate for committee members to praise poorly-conducted surveys and tout them as evidence. (I've no idea if Cheryl is a member of a relevant committee.)

Cheryl’s tweet sounds like ‘she’ got what ‘she’ wanted. Am hoping that it was more wishful thinking and that Sophie will be pissed to have her words appropriated as not wanting discussion to take place.
Any discussion has to be positive, but it’s human nature to be concerned about how much openness can in reality take place in an atmosphere suffused with trans ideology.

Sure it's better to have a debate than to not have a debate. But I will neither subscribe to nor vote for a woman's party that hasn't made up its mind whether male paraphiliacs, rapists and paedophiles are women or not.

I really want a party I can believe in and support. I want it to be WEP - I need an anchor.

When I visit A Woman's Place or Fairplay for Women I'm convinced. I know they are campaign groups and not political parties, but their stall is set out and I can see it clearly. Their words are powerful, defined.

So far I'm still waiting for 'more' from WEP and the speech, but maybe I'm being unrealistic in my expectations?

However, I'm wary when I see supporters/influencers in the party still favouring Stonewall or TW rights to access female spaces. I wonder if the party is splintered or led by others who don't share the views in the speech what will happen long term.

There are approximate 5000 women that have left the Labour Party over this issue

I don't think that's true, is it?

It is scary as hell, that what makes a woman ‘brave’ in the current climate, is to tentatively suggest they might be in favour of keeping the status quo.

Women are not even trying to gain more rights, or increase our political representation, we are only fighting to keep what few rights we do have.

The biggest fight in our life time, is to try and stop our rights being rolled back. That is one hell of a damning indictment of early 21st century.

My own feeling is that we criticise people on this board for not speaking out at all. Rightly.

And then when someone does speak out finally, we criticise them for not speaking out enough. Or not going far enough.

That probably incentivises someone to keep quiet in the first place. That way they'll only ever get one lot of criticism, rather than two lots.

This goes further than any other political party. The other parties see no conflict between gender identity and sex-based rights.

It's not easy for Sophie Walker to stand up against the TRAs and the right-on left. Criticising her for not going full-on GC is unfair and unkind. She has shown she has engaged with the key issues, at considerable personal cost, and we should cut her some slack.

I've seen SW speak before and she is v impressive.

Anyway, I agree in the current climate this is a pretty hopeful statement in the opening of discussions.

But it's pretty fudgy.

Not good enough, in a week in which we learnt that the state has knowingly incarcerated women and children with a rapist paedophile because of this out-of-control ideology

Oh
I was at school with her!

Chris Tweeted this earlier in the year, siding with Stonewall so curious to hear views on GRA.
So far on Twitter on WEP feed I am seeing mainly Tweets from those who believe TWAW so I am confused about the direction of travel.

Can anybody tell me what Chris said?
WomensEqualityUK (@WEP_UK) Tweeted:
.@chrispaouros introducing motion on changes to Gender Recognition Act. Following debate, members voted to refer this to the Policy and Data committees to develop in consultation with wider membership. #WE2018 t.co/5LfUds0bxl twitter.com/WEP_UK/status/1038797553897283585?s=17

Feeble.

Sorry, but feeble.

Yep. The best outcome they could have hoped for really.

It was brave of Sophie to take charge of this in having the emergency motion in the first place.

Sophie has managed to head off the wholescale WEP endorsement of self-ID in the GRA consultation. Which was looking like a certainty a month ago. She'll have made enemies in the party by doing this, but hopefully inspired others to speak up.

There needs to be action to follow this up.

There are approximate 5000 women that have left the Labour Party over this issue. WEP get my subs each month. I'm hovering over the button.

Make the equality matter.

Make women matter.

Be a Party to be proud of.