Has Dh out-feministed me, what do you think?

Get rid of the titles and even out the hierarchy

Let's include all titles then, including Mrs etc.

Mine is still relevant in professional circles - and I actually worked for it :)

I believe that the first and original useage of the title 'Dr' was ecclesiastical - as in 'Doctor of the Church'. At least that is always what I say at dinner parties when someone tries to square off the PhDs and the medical Drs.

Loads of poeple are snobs.

Get rid of the titles and even out the hierarchy.

It's all about hierarchy again.
Medical docs often (or used to) think non medical docs who used it outside of work were twats.

Hierarchy hierarchy hierarchy.

TBF my friend's dad who parked in the doctors only parking was a twat. Well more than that, he was a horrible horrible bastard of a man. But anyway.

DH has a PhD. He never use Dr outside of work, says it tells you a lot about people who do

So because your DH doesn't use it it means those of us who do are snobs?

DH has a PhD. He never use Dr outside of work, says it tells you a lot about people who do, and particularly those that make a huge fuss about someone (particularly, say, someone under pressure doing a low wage job) who gets it wrong. They're snobs, basically. And yes, the abuse on twitter isn't ok, but neither is shaming a low paid female employee on social media. I'm sure if she'd commented at the time, she'd have got an apology. Really petty and mean to go on twitter after the fact.

LassWiADelicateAir

On another note in the olden days before social media O'Dwyer could just have said to the flight attendant "it's Dr actually " and got an apology there and then.

I would still take this approach. I wonder why Dr O'Dwyer didn't

I am really proud to be Miss. It shows every time I use it that I’m not attached to anyone, but living single and wild and free (or as wild and free as you can be with kids pets ft job etc). So I would not have objected.

Boarding passes do often include a title, I've travelled as Mr Obviously Female First Name Surname a few times

TooMuchParis

The male consultants are always Mr - Mr and Miss.

I suppose that it goes back to when women were allowed to practice medicine but had to leave when they got married.

Or maybe for simplicity- it's still a title fro doctoring and not like in real life where obviosuly whether you have a man at home to fuck you is way more relevant.

the first probably.

she was snobby and classist to call cabin crew trolley dollies in such a deameaning way she didn't say this! The media have put together her original tweet with someone else's tweet (which was not from her or in her control) and made everyone froth about it against her. Who would be a woman in public life?

She was right, its sexism, but she was snobby and classist to call cabin crew trolley dollies in such a deameaning way

In the UK female consultants are always miss irrespective of marital status.

I think there may be one discipline where it's different and they stay dr but can't remember and could well be wrong on that!

My parents were both medical docs and neither minded at all about being called mr/ Mrs outside of work type things ( which were the only things I knew about obv) so this had probably coloured my view.

They did use it for sure if they wanted someone to take them more seriously, my dad especially -
With titles a lot of it's about hierarchy.

The article totally made it sound like she said trolley dolly, wonder why they did that.

Yes the abuse any and all women get when they say anything pretty much in public is highly misogynist.

Just remembered my friends dad who used to park in "doctors only" parking at the hosp- on the basis of his doctorate in something like philosophy!

I'm on the fence about the original issue. I don't tend to use Dr but having said that, if there's a drop down menu and you have to chose one I always chose 'Dr' as I'm not a Miss, Mrs or Mrs now

Yep. I find Miss and Mrs offensive. I don't mind Ms. In some contexts I use my academic title and in others Ms. But I do not ever define myself in respect any relationship to a man.

The only time I have been forced to use Dr (instead of a first name) was in a telephone conversation with an academic male (I was an administrator at the time). People just shrugged because men, you know...

I'm on the fence about the original issue. I don't tend to use Dr but having said that, if there's a drop down menu and you have to chose one I always chose 'Dr' as I'm not a Miss, Mrs or Mrs now.

I don't make people call me Dr but in this scenario, the air hostess would have had to look at her name to address her, so having gone to that trouble, to then leave out the Dr and replace it with Miss is a bit sexist IMO.

The other thing I have learned about this whole debacle is that for academics, being open, having lots of pictures and your CV or details on your website can then be harvested to appear in the Daily Mail or other newspapers, with appropriate amounts of abuse and mocking (about feminism, women in general, derogatory remarks about appearance, stupid remarks about her 'PhD in Philosophy' and how useless that is when of course she has a DPhil in a different subject). We are encouraged to not be in an ivory tower and to interact more with the general public, on this occasion I wouldn't have liked to have been at the centre of the storm and I would go out of my way to avoid it by limiting my public profile. You might argue that by making one tweet about the title Dr she deserved all the misogynistic shit and public haranguing. I wouldn't and I wouldn't want it so I'll say even less in future.

On another note, in the olden days before social media Dr O’Dwyer would have made the original remark to her friends or colleagues and not much more would have been thought of it

On another note in the olden days before social media O'Dwyer could just have said to the flight attendant "it's Dr actually " and got an apology there and then.

The trolley dolly comment was made by a Dr Mel Thomson, who is a woman. Odd that Dr O'Dwyer was so quick to take offence at not getting her title but seemed ok with this.

Dunno Lass, maybe she didn’t want to attack the few allies she had when she was getting vile abuse piled up around her... Doubt that would have been my first thought either.

Whoever used the word ‘trolley dolly’ is a nasty piece of work.

On another note, in the olden days before social media Dr O’Dwyer would have made the original remark to her friends or colleagues and not much more would have been thought of it. The problem with Twitter is that it amplifies issues to become enormous storms, even when they may not be particularly crystal clear cases of sexism. Then the ultimate issue of women’s status is perceived to be less important than it is, as people who want to undermine it can just point to dozens of examples of ‘wimmin making a fuss about nothing’. I believe in the value of narratives of lived experience, but on social media there is no selection mechanism between the serious and the insignificant. Look at industrial tribunals and court cases if you want to see genuinely disputed examples of sexist behaviour.

PS. Not a doctor myself. Thinking of undertaking a PhD so that I too can be insulted by an airline!