Has Dh out-feministed me, what do you think?

But as I stated we don't look at the boarding passes to say the surname. It's for security, believe it or not I've had people board the wrong aircraft before 😂

I'm not saying she shouldn't be recognised for her achievements. A doctorate is a huge achievement and of course she should be recognised for it.

A lot of the time though when we are boarding, and against time constraints, people are just sir or madam. Sometimes I look at the last name and don't register what is ahead of it!

At the same time, it makes no difference to us as crew wether the dr title is in front of a men or women's surname.
we carry hundreds of thousands of people a year, and within those flights we have hundreds of women doctors, Be it of science, art, or medical. And of course we recognise them when we can.

I'm not denying that there aren't people out there who don't believe that women can be doctors, and I understand it must be incredibly frustrating if someone obviously doubts it and refuses to use the title.

Crew are used to seeing thousands of people from different cultures, countries and academic backgrounds, does this woman really think that the crew deliberately didn't call her DR? Considering we have women with that title boarding every single flight, seems a bit unrealistic for her to be singled out?

Everyone who I have ever worked with has been respectful and uses the titles when possible. Sometimes it is not possible or human error happens. Can this woman really say she has never called someone by the wrong name? Can she really say that she hasn't made a mistake before?

In groups and out groups.

It's divisive. Hierarchical.

Do away with the whole lot I say.

Only necessary when publishing

actually very rarely used when publishing!

It's not used in references, but has to be declared when submitting to publish.

I guess it's used in written contexts in the work place, but not when introducing one Dr to Dr for example, as the title is presumed.
It would get a bit silly with everyone constantly saying Dr .

"But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable."

No-one has said this?

The people (and I know some) who think non medical doctors using Dr are twats, apply this in a unisex manner.

With them it's about snobbery > not sex.

No I didn't know what you mean!

My MIL insisted on being called "Mrs" and got really angry when eg people at tha bank called her first name last name, she found it overly familiar and disrespectiful.

I felt she was a being a bit precious but I never dug into it as I didn't know her that long before she died. Also, she was quite intimidating and argumentative and I don't think it would have ended well!

So no - I didn't know what you mean.

If it's about people wanting to be addressed as mrs / ms / miss rather than the wrong one that seems oK - certainyl Ms people get fucked off with beign called Mrs or Miss and the whole thing is a minefield for women and a feminist issue obv.

If it's about wanting to be called mrs rather than just a name then that's a different thing.

There are many women who expect to be addressed as 'Mrs', especially when the address is in writing (on invites, letters etc.) and no one thinks anything of this because 'Mrs' is acceptable for women

Personally I think insisting on being "Mrs" and proclaiming to the world , whether the world needs or wants to know, that one has nabbed a husband is a bit silly.

But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable

Who says that on here? And again there is a world of difference between a bank or an employer etc refusing to use the preferred title and this tiny, hurried interaction.

"Does having a qualification make your backside a different shape"

Well, not quite there yet, but my arse is definitely bigger from all of the sitting down and reading

Only necessary when publishing

actually very rarely used when publishing!

I'm not sure what you mean though?

I suspect you do, but anyway...

There are many women who expect to be addressed as 'Mrs', especially when the address is in writing (on invites, letters etc.) and no one thinks anything of this because 'Mrs' is acceptable for women. But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable.

Actually when you work inn a context where most/everyone is a Dr, it would be even more wanky to insist on your title being used there ime.

You are just known and addressed by your name

Only necessary when publishing

If someone was wittering on about a flight attendant calling them Ms instead of Mrs my response would be the same. If it bothered them that much all that was required was a brief " it's Mrs actually".

To compare this tiny, hurried interaction to being the same as not getting the full and correct title when being introduced at a conference is nonsense.

The poster who actually is a flight attendant,weddingplanner123 is spot on.

By MIL insisted on being called "Mrs" -

I'm not sure what you mean though?

I don't like titles full stop they are all about hierarchy and the female ones denoting our place in the social hierarchy.

I've been consistent on this all through the thread -

Of course I don't know who you are talking to!

On another note, in the olden days before social media Dr O’Dwyer would have made the original remark to her friends or colleagues and not much more would have been thought of it
That is still what she shuold hae done- it's not obligatory to put your every thought on socila media.

I'm with you OP, it was likely and easily made mistake.

I'm a Dr, not a medical one, and I'll be one of the 'twats' who admits I use it outside work as I like it.

BUT I don't get offended when people use and assume I'm a Mrs, or even when people use Mrs DH's name as they assume I must have taken my husband's name.(I haven't)

It's a bit annoying at the most, but i totally understand that people make assumptions/rapid decisions based on norms, and not everyone has the time to have taken my academic qualifications, marital status, and feminist leanings into account when addressing me in a passing context.

There seem to be a few posters on this thread with some noses out of joint. A bit sad on a feminist board where we should be proud of our achievements. I wonder if the same snarkiness would be in place for women who insisted on being called 'Mrs', and I've met a few of them!

I insist on my family underlings addressing me as The Doctor.

Why do people use titles out of work? Do they expect friends and family to use them

Do people expect friends and family to use any title - Miss, Mrs etc? I expect Dr or Ms. I am neither 'Miss' nor 'Mrs'.

The article totally made it sound like she said trolley dolly, wonder why they did that

I did spot that, wondered if I should mention it and couldn't be bothered. Dr O'D was happy to leave it as it stood.

On another note in the olden days before social media O'Dwyer could just have said to the flight attendant "it's Dr actually " and got an apology there and then.

I would still take this approach. I wonder why Dr O'Dwyer didn't

Because Dr O'Dwyer would have to engage with another (lowly) person and would miss out on revelling in this slight to her dignity. Perhaps despite the PhD she isn't as bright as she thinks she is.

Why do people use titles out of work? Do they expect friends and family to use them?

Does having a qualification make your backside a different shape so you need a special seat?

I'm sure that there are lots of lovely doctors out there but most of them I have met were arrogant pricks.

"Letters after the name is a bit American isn't it?"

"That doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea!"

"and it's hierarchy again!"

If I was gonna be picky, I'd say that the British way being better vs the American way is suggesting another hierarchy...

Letters after the name is a bit American isn't it?

That doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea!

and it's hierarchy again!

I disagree; in the case of earned qualifications and membership of professional bodies, the letters may be useful or even vital information, in contexts where they are relevant.

'Dr' on a boarding card is irrelevant, or even unhelpful unless you're a medic with skills which could be useful in an onboard emergency. MB or whatever it is on your professional letterhead isn't.

Sounds like classism on behalf of the doctor.

Nobody is obliged to address you by an academic title unless they work under you. Clearly that's what she thought of the 'trolley dolly'.

It's another middle class woman using a public platform to put down someone she thinks owes her deference. This is the same pronoun shit TRAs pull all the time.

Ridiculous. I’ve been called Dr BigBlue, Mrs BigBlue, Miss BigBlue, Mrs DHname, Mrs DCname... as long as the person is polite and helpful I don’t see the point in getting sniffy about it. If it bothers you or causes a problem then just politely correct the mistake. It isn’t sexism.

The only time I’ve ever objected was when we made a bank appointment as Mr DHname and Dr BigBlue, and the bank employee persisted in calling DH “Dr” even though it was obvious I’m female and therefore was not the “Mr”.

I have no doubt that looking at 300 boarding passes in a matter of minutes is stressful and challenging. But if you're going to address someone as Title Surname, and you're looking at the boarding pass anyway because you need to see what the surname is, you might as well check you've got the title right. Otherwise why use titles at all

Yeah look I agree. Oddly, I have my banking details in the form of my title because otherwise, I would have been 'Miss'. Long story - but I wasn't allowed Ms for an account and then after I got my PhD and walked into the bank to open my credit card and saw the same woman who would not allow me 'Ms' I went for Dr. I had a staff card at the time and used this as proof (and the bank was the main one that anyone from the university used). To this end, I book my flights using this card and to keep things consistent I use my professional title. But if I'd have been allowed 'Ms' in the first place maybe I wouldn't. As said above, I've had the 'double look' when I've used my credit card before AND seen non-'doctored' men promoted to Dr when I've been called by my first name.

I'm normally in favour of abolishing herarchies, but I know quite a few women with PhDs who have had the same kinds of experiences mentioned earlier: being introduced by their first name alongside male colleagues whose titles are included in the introduction etc. So I see why female academics seek precisely the same level of respect given to their male colleagues.

I have no doubt that looking at 300 boarding passes in a matter of minutes is stressful and challenging. But if you're going to address someone as Title Surname, and you're looking at the boarding pass anyway because you need to see what the surname is, you might as well check you've got the title right. Otherwise why use titles at all?

"Who made up this rank anyway? It's nonsense."
Yes - this.

Get rid of them all. There is no need in most situations for anyone to be aware you are a dr of history, dr of medicine, priest or whatever.

It's just hierarchy= that's all.

In a situaiton where a dr of history, dr or medicine or priest is needed they can be asked for. Which is what happens in the plane examples anyway. (And all the women esp women who aren't white are sent away anyway).