James Kirkup: Why was a transgender rapist put in a women’s prison?

Frances Crook from the Howard League is GC - I'm hoping that she will say something about this case soon

The network of 'interesting' individuals is more a bit of investigative piece of reporting rather than a political commentary column. Maybe Gilligan might pick that up. Or The Mail/MoS have a strong investigative team.

Thank you once again James.

Prison policy says prisoners should generally be housed in the estate that matches their expressed gender, subject to a review by a Transgender Case Board following rules drawn up after a review partly run by an organisation called Gendered Intelligence, one of a handful of small trans rights groups that enjoy an interesting level of access and influence in Whitehall.

I hope he'll do more on the influence these groups have. As well as the links between various individuals, as has been set out on these boards and twitter.

Thank you Laura. Certain I was thinking that a JR might be able to establish case law that placing people in prisons for the opposite sex is unlawful and shouldn’t be allowed. I agree that it needs a charity to lead it - ideally one like the Howard League or Prison Reform Trust who have a track record in bringing successful JRs for unfair treatment of prisoners. I suspect it would have to be a women’s organisation though.

But surely you'd do a JR to reverse the decision. Which has been reversed anyway now. Is this more public enquiry?

LOVE. Thank you, James. I subscribed to the Spectator on the strength of this series.

GetOffMyTERF

Yes, it's a challenge to a decision of a public body, which must be brought within 3 months at the latest, on the basis that the decision was

a) irrational (so irrational that no reasonable body could have made it)
b) unlawful
c) procedurally improper, or
d) a breach of human rights

I think there's certainly scope for JR in there, but it would need to be brought by one of the women affected.

Thanks
I think I may email them

Floral - yup! I think a Jaws reference is apt.

The shark gets it in the end

There is a charity called Women in Prisons.

This could and should definitely be subject to judicial review

On so many grounds

I wonder if there is any legal assistance available to the women in the prisons? Does anyone know if there is a charity which might promote this?

We're gonna need a bigger spreadsheet.

Or boat, even.

It was a deliberate Jaws reference, wasn't it? One of my favourite "Blimey, this is really much more of an issue than I realized" quotes.

Does anyone know how judicial review works? Could it be used to challenge the legality of the decision to place this violent rapist in a women’s prison?

Now I have to decide between a subscription to Private Eye or The Spectator. What an odd choice.

Do they have anyone willing to actually be honest though, thats the question. Knowing the amount of abuse you get for being public
Yeah, from people who were never going to vote Conservative in a million years anyway. Penny: just outspend Momentum on social media and remind people yours is the party of two female Prime Ministers. Many ex-Labour voters I know are already at peak Corbyn , might as well peak trans them too.

You can't put a straight man in the Women and Equalities post because it's bad optics

Well you can put a straight man in a womens officer post though it seems

Maybe get some bloke who is willing to state 'I identify as a woman' and hey presto. No changes to himself are necessary, as per what TRAs say.

The problem with a reshuffle is that the people who have least to fear from speaking plainly on this matter are straight men.

You can't put a straight man in the Women and Equalities post because it's bad optics. They could probably get away with a gay man in that post but anyone who is part of the LGBT community is going to be under huge pressure from orgs like Stonewall and any perceived misstep would probably be career ending.

Any woman in that post currently will be branded a (redacted word) if she appears to be remotely gender critical.

A better idea if they are serious about giving it proper scrutiny would be to find a way to move it out of the Women and Equalities portfolio. Maybe Health or Home Affairs, somewhere a bit more neutral.

Thanks James.

I've taken out a subscription to the Spectator on the strength of his articles.

Yes -wondering if there's one already?

Sticker - yes! Maybe start a new thread for "this never happens" incidents?

James began this series of articles with a sense of being careful. I can see he is getting more and more angry. He's now pulling no punches and it's great.

Yes, I have noticed this too.

The Tories could easily do a reshuffle and replace Mordaunt with someone with more common sense....and just let the whole thing drop. Face-saving all round.

Do they have anyone willing to actually be honest though, thats the question. Knowing the amount of abuse you get for being public..

Thank you James as always!

Somebody mentioned upthread a different incident each week.

I'd love a timeline of what's happened as it would clearly show up "this never happens" as "this happened on x sept then x sept and here's a link'

I may try to sift through for when my husband does the GRA form.

We're going to need a bigger spreadsheet....

Thank you yet again to James.

And yes Timelady - you're spot on about how to turn this round. When even the Prime Minister has been so catastrophically advised that she could promote self ID without any appreciation of the dangers this poses to women and children, when the DfE has been cheerfully throwing money at organisations currently misleading schools about safeguarding and the law, this is not going to be easy to reverse. People (politicians) will lose face

The recent uncovering of the paedophiles, flashers and sexual fetishists leading the demands for the eradication of sex segregated spaces is a help as it evidences that what women are saying in terms of risk to women and children are evidently true. And the predictable thisneverhappens sexual assaults of women in prison by those with penises also exposes the lies.

I've supported 'respectful open dialogue' all along but, given the level of threats and misogyny aimed at women asking for this, it's only by making politicians acknowledge that they are condemning 12 year old girls to share showers with adults with penises and by ensuring that the public understands that this is a movement that celebrates the rights of the Karen Whites, Liam Huntleys and David Challenors over and above the rights of children to be protected, that we'll make any progress.

This from the article is a bloody good question and it needs answers. Who is representing women's interests here? It certainly isn't Penny Mordaunt Minister for Women.

"The rapist Karen White is a transwoman.

"“Transwomen are women,” Penny Mordaunt said when she announced that plan to change the law. “That is the starting point for the GRA consultation, and it will be its finishing point too.”

The victims of the rapist Karen White are women. Who speaks for them?"

I think the Tories need to back away quietly and that they must be starting to see that this is a non-starter?

Every week there is a new scandal and the Tories have a lot of this kind of thing in their back catalogue anyway frankly. If you imagine an MP in a 'being flagellated by a rent boy while dressed in a nappy' scandal you're going to imagine your average posh boy Tory as it is. They surely can't take any chances that this will blow up in their faces? And at the moment it is blowing up left right and centre.

Drop it quietly. Have a word with the prison service/social services/and the Health department (also quietly). Start rowing it back. It might have seemed like a good idea but it really really wasn't. And then when the shit hits the fan properly you can be sitting pretty saying, 'I quite agree with my Right Honorable Friend - there are questions here which MUST be answered by those who allowed this to happen.'