Can TWAW be compared to being "colour blind"

In my fairly extensive experience, most trans people don't agree with the extreme TRAs. Groups like 'Action for Trans Health' are more likely to get eye-rolling than enthusiastic support. It's similar to the way a lot of vegans dislike PETA for pulling stunts which make vegans look ridiculous, and have many negative external effects.
Like the rest of us, many trans people are scared of the extreme TRAs. Anyone who steps out of line is called 'TruScum', will be subject to a vicious and very public campaign against them, online and off. Given the average trans person is likely to be particularly keen to keep their head down and not attract extra attention to their being trans, this is particularly nasty.

There's a lot of us on the 'woke lefty' side who are going along with the TWAW not as true believers, but because we're scared not to. I've been very carefully starting to subtly stick my nose above the parapet, and very often find people reciprocating, hugely relieved that they aren't the only ones, that there's somebody else that they can talk to. 'I'm probably going to get slaughtered as a transphobe for saying this - but bodies do matter for who I want to have sex with'. 'Undercover feminist rant club'.
If the most extreme TRAs were gone, if we weren't afraid of being entirely socially isolated, if there were a few more examples of people not going along and still being allowed to exist in peace, many more of us 'woke lefties' would be openly GC. I'm disappointed in my 'tribe' for being so narrowly conformist, but the level of bullying and intimidation is frightening. So is the selective information. It's easy to believe 'it never happens' if nobody can talk about when it does.

It is ironic that it's the extreme TRAs who call other trans people scum. I've not seen that from GC feminists. The Internet is a big place, it might be out there somewhere. But the routine dehumanisation of people who disagree, including trans people, seems to be a TRA thing.

Sure, they can still be aggressive or violent, Upstart, but they cannot rape without s penis.

A male who has taken such extreme steps seems to me more likely to be genuine in their desire to be womanlike, and therefore not be seeking to harm women, than a self-IDed intact male demanding validation or a pervert taking advantage of unfettered access to females.

At which point the physical danger they pose to women is substantially reduced.

I dont agree. Surgery just alters a person's appearance, not their character.

Even the law says TW are LEGALLY women

Male GRC holders, I assume you mean?

ABit, well we're not a hive mind so there's nothing stopping you giving it a go.

Tbh, I don't think there is a silver bullet that will suddenly reveal the truth to everyone. Life isn't like that - you just have to keep plugging away with the truth the best you can, and hopefully the GC view will reach critical mass before too much damage has been done.

I don't think the women of FWR and all the things that spin off from that on Twitter and in real life have been ignoring the well meaning liberals. A significant proportion of us come from that tent. That's the essence of so much of the debate here - a sizeable contingent of left leaning women thrashing out exactly why we have such misgivings about this whole thing despite seeming tailor-made to nod along and unquestioningly cheer.

I agree ABitCrapper

Even just seeing others speaking out and questioning will allow them space to feel able to think about it.

The big problems I see are the need to be nice and the tribalism. You can say a lot of nonsense if you're seen as kind/right side of history etc. You can make a lot of mud stick if you shout right winger (people legit think that t**fs are right wing extremists!). Then just bamboozle with esoteric word salad and you're done! No-one will want to even question.

At which point the physical danger they pose to women is substantially reduced.

@jellyslice
A significant minority of transsexuals have surgery to remove testicles and invert the penis to create a "vagina". The jawline and Adams apple can be feminised. Take a look at Paris Lees. I would say that she is indistinguishable.

I like your op, op!

I've tried it and it does create a pause. Generally the response I get is that it's mean to separate because you could be forcing a transwoman to out themselves - which is akin to opening the door on their shark cage or something.

So, I say that surely transwomen need - and should have access to - respectful and accurate words/spaces/treatments for their specific needs, which are necessarily different from women's - it's actually disrespectful to trans people to be 'sex blind' because it ignores their specific needs. That surely the way to progress on trans visibility and understanding in society is to be a proud transwoman - not to try and hide amongst another oppressed group and thus have your specific identities obscured?

Usually the response is either something along the lines of 'most oppressed group ever' and how they have to pass/hide (use women as human shields) for safety.

Or

Biology is really so complex, 'hormonally' intersex, wrong brain/body combination, hormone wash in utero, sex isn't nearly so clear cut as I think but people know their gender - which is apparently more clear cut? - so what they identify as is what they literally are.
Aka - nonsense world salad that doesn't actually define, answer or solve anything.

It barely matters what's legal when extreme TRAs will use everything from ostracism to bomb threats to stop all-female events.

I can't tell if they mean sex by gender or gender identity by gender, so I have no idea what that says...

where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from a non-transsexual person of that gender
That's really unclear. Do they mean a man who looks like a man should be treated according to his acquired identity if he says he is a woman?
Or do they mean a man who looks just like a woman should be treated as woman. The latter makes no sense, if you couldn't tell, you couldn't discriminate, surely?

where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from a non-transsexual person of that gender

How can someone with a penis be indistinguishable from someone with a vulva?!

No it doesn't.

13.57 If a service provider provides single- or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present.

13.59 Service providers should be aware that where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from a non-transsexual person of that gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender, unless there are strong reasons to the contrary.

These arrangements can include single-sex shortlists for election candidates, but not shortlists restricted to people with other protected characteristics.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/7/5

Sex is a protected characteristic, so is orientation.
''A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian''
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/1/9/3

Even the law says TW are LEGALLY women

No it doesn't.

It does if they have a GRC.

Oh I get it.

It disregards reality in exactly the same way that TWAW does.

Sure the EA allows justifiable discrimination under certain circumstances - but can Rape Crisis centres afford the legal fees every time they need to apply the EA to protect female victims of rape from the penises of narcissistic males?

Why should anyone have to justify their sex-based need for safety and privacy, simply because a narcissistic male wants what they have?

Ah she's just saying that this week so she can SAY SHE NEVER SAID IT Floral.

She didn't mean those people she didn't mean the fur babies she didn't mean prisons. In two months she won't have said anything at all and there will just be a space where she used to post. Hopefully someone will use that space to recommend some really nice boots. Because winter is coming.

Let's talk about K White shall we Rat? Let's talk about transwomen in women's prisons. You're not on that thread. I wonder why??

This is a nice cosy place to chat isn't it? Not locked up in a cell with your low social status and your brain injury and your history of domestic abuse wondering if he's out there with his cock poking out of his trousers waiting for you, waiting to touch you. Lovely. Cup of tea? We can have a nice cosy chat. Who has the best argument? Who's going to say what about the children? loudest. Maybe some sarky remarks about being called a racist. And then we can put down Mumsnet and toddle off to bed. Lovely.

I actually think I get Rat's point here. I don't agree with her point, but I can see how you can get to the point of saying TWAW and as long as you parse it extremely carefully, you can squeak through the gate of TW and women needing biologically different things in certain circumstances.

I don't think it works for anyone very well, and will go down like a bucket of cold sick with most of the vocal TRAs, but as my kids say, 'Issa look'.