Another example of why trans rights, data collection, and identity need to be considered carefully

The voice for me is the primary indicator of a person's sex. I am very sensitive to sound and even ftm's who have taken so much T that their voice has "broken" I can tell the difference. Mtf's who have had the vocal surgery like BW and KH do my head in because I can't believe they're trans even though I know they are. Their voices are so convincing.

The Iron Rule of prudence for an Istanbulite Woman: If you are as fragile as a tea glass, either find a way to never encounter burning water and hope to marry an ideal husband or get yourself laid and broken as soon as possible. Alternatively, stop being a tea-glass woman!
― Elif Shafak, The Bastard of Istanbul

I'm channeling Kathleen Turner today because I have a cold so I'm Mrs huskyvoice. I doubt my own mother would recognize me on the phone.

I'm sure this incident was very frustrating for the person involved, but fucksake, that's what happens when reality bumps up against personal quirky identities. You can either pout about your ever-so-special personal circumstances not being taken into account, or you can have your account emptied by the next fraudster who thinks of a clever excuse to get round security checks. Dear lord I do wonder how some of these people function in the real world.

I can never get voice recognition systems to work for me

As I understand it that is a very common error with Scott's work, Prestonsflowers.

No, not wee chocolates, not good.
thebewilderness
I have always thought that was a quote from Shakespeare.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practise to deceive!" Marmion

Excellent! Now .... back to the thread, sorry for the derail everybody.

I have posh crackers, some posh wee chocolates and some cushions.

I'm half on the naughty step at the moment, might see you there.I'll bring gin and cheese!

Didn't think you were having a dig, not at all, thought you were helpfully pointing out a mistake I'd made!

Here's hoping I don't get into trouble, or, at least, that if I do, the naughty step is big, as I said, I am fat.

vivarium I wasn't having a dig, quite the opposite. It was you making a statement about some people who think they pass when perhaps people are simply being economical with the truth in order to save hurt feelings. I can't say anymore but I agree completely. It's not at all transphobic, it's the plain truth. But when we say truthful things we end up on the naughty step

Ok, I'm going to need it spelling out -

potential racism: "white people don't pass" - well, some other races do pass really well as women, but if your build is broad and stocky, you don't. Sorry, white people.

"sorry Shon": Shon's said yesterday about how lucky she is that she passes. Maybe, in a well lit photoshoot - but, once she's mobile and talking, nope. I work in as liberal leftie environment as you can get, and I'm a right bleeding heart. Every time a person at work tells me "I'm trans" am I supposed to feign surprise? It makes as much sense to me as me loudly announcing to the office "I'm fat" - everyone can see I'm fat, it doesn't need pointing out.

"Should be proud to be able to be trans": I don't get why it's important to be actually female. Which is a biological impossibility. What's wrong with being a transwoman?

"Simon Cowall": to be fair, he's probably never actually said "you're shit", that was maybe a bit harsh.

Pink News: Sorry about the Penis. Again, that person should have been able to say without feeling awkward "I'm a trans-man" and should have enough of an understanding of his biology and medication to know that the perfectly sensible questions from A+E were, you know, perfectly sensible. If he didn't understand that when taking medication then he's not been able to give informed consent to the treatment regime and that's a big worry. Unless, of course, he was buying them online without input from a gender clinic. Which is also a big worry.

I really do worry for these people and the way social media sets up unrealistic expectations - yes, the woman on the phone to the bank was in a horrible situation, I can totally see why it must have been upsetting. But, surely she recognises that the majority of voices that go through male puberty does not sound female? They just don't. I don't see it's transphobic to state that, if it is, I'd be welcome of the chance to educate myself.

Am I? I didn't misgender anyone? Seriously?

I don't understand..had better go and read the guidelines again.

vivarium you are so going to be under his eye on the MN naughty step for saying that!

Blood donations - remember this cracker from Pink News?

Trans-man breaks his arm. A+E ask if he could be pregnant and is he on hormones. Cue Penis News' outrage, what does his trans status have to do with a broken arm? Cue everyone-with-a-brain pointing out that x-ray harms foetuses and people taking T are at risk from osteoporosis.

Fucking numpties. Sex and medication status are relevant.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/03/28/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-transgender-broken-arm-trans-people-deserve-fair-non-discriminatory-access-to-services/

The hard fact is that white people who transition post-puberty don't pass.

I'm sorry, Shon, it's true. Your friends tell you that you pass, but, you don't.

It's a bit like kids with encouraging mums standing up on BGT to let loose some awful wail and Simon Cowell says "you're shit". He's saying the truth, everyone else has been cruel by pretending the kid had talent.

Trans people should be able to be proud to be trans. This pretending to be female is where they need their mum to step up and say "sorry love, you're not as good as you think you are. If I don't tell you, Cowell will on national tv and that will be worse"

BlazeAway

It affects other things as well. I know somebody trans FtM (socially only) who couldn't give blood, because the nurse had to compare against the men's iron level because the friend had ticked the "male" box.

The other issue there is that women have to leave longer between donations than men because it takes us longer to replace the lost red cells. If the nurse applied the male donation interval to your friend, it could risk your friend's health.

Whilst no one is obliged to give blood and those who do are actual lifesavers, there's a high degree of narcissism and selfishness needed to turn up to a donor session, give factually inaccurate answers, and waste a slot that could have been used by a good-faith donor, just because one prioritises one's "gender identity" over saving someone's life.

Biology matters, people!

THere was also a publically released recording by a trans woman who was very angry that as part of the ambulance service's triage questions had been been asked for confirmation about their sex, having said they were a woman. From memory they would not confirm that they were a trans woman.
A complaint was made.

HotRocker
The online booking system for my doctors wasn’t accessible with my screen reader

Your GP may be breaking the law. It's possible to design websites that work with screen readers and audio browsers and it would be a "reasonable adjustment" for them to write "must work with screen reader: PASS/FAIL" into the tender document when buying the booking website software.

There isn't English case law yet, but there is Australian case law for service providers being found to have failed to make reasonable adjustments.

It affects other things as well. I know somebody trans FtM (socially only) who couldn't give blood, because the nurse had to compare against the men's iron level because the friend had ticked the "male" box.

That's what happens when you expect the world to validate your invisible identity but you choose to use words that have a very clear and tangible meaning -which you do not fit - to do it.

Female means something very real, and very recognisable, and very biological.
Bad choice of word to 'identify as' when you are a male.

Not everyone has magic skills that can distinguish between males who are fraudsters and should be caught by the security process, and males who are officially ladies inside (although not in their vocal chords, apparently).

I recently failed a telephone banking security test because I couldn't remember what amount of money I'd withdrawn from what cashpoint a week prior. I'm menopausal for god's sake, I can't even remember what I had for tea yesterday sometimes. So I had to go into my local branch which was a pain but better than someone else accessing my bank account. It's just life.

I've had the opposite with my bank - someone called up claiming to be me and managed to order a new debit card that they intercepted in the post. There was a full investigation into the fraud and the bank accepted it was their fault, when the recording came to light that it was a male with a strong foreign accent. I'd rather them keep common sense checks in the system until the local branch can see ID and note something on the file.

but I don't really want to find my bank account cleared, only to ring up and ask how/why, find that a man called and cleared it and when I ask how they allowed this seeing as I'm a woman, for them to reply "well we thought you were maybe transgender and gave the benefit of the doubt".

And what of women who are experiencing abuse? Who may have been quietly buildng up finances to enable them to leave? Its much more likely that a partner has access to some of the information that could enable them to answer security questions have bank account information etc.