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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Women are Women for Equality Act 2010 purposes (Penny Mordaunt MP)

62 replies

stephLDS18 · 06/09/2018 12:10

Well the Secretary of State has made her view absolutely clear!

Trans Women are Women for Equality Act 2010 purposes (Penny Mordaunt MP)
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SmartPersonsStupidPerson · 06/09/2018 14:12

This is the supposed letter from the GEO.

It could be fake, I guess, but it was tweeted at PennyMordaunt and at the GEO and so far they haven't refuted it.

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1037437309044576256

Trans Women are Women for Equality Act 2010 purposes (Penny Mordaunt MP)
Trans Women are Women for Equality Act 2010 purposes (Penny Mordaunt MP)
R0wantrees · 06/09/2018 13:35

However, there is a concern that if the definition of woman is expanded to include men, then this could in theory lead to fewer acts being regarded as discriminatory under the Act.

March 2018 Scottish legislation which changed definition of both 'woman' & 'female'
fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

Concerns on current thread that within proposed bill to make mysogyny a sex based hate crime in UK might do similar. Suggestion that it might include male-born people who identify as women.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3355910-Stella-Creasey-is-on-a-guest-post-invoking-SEX-as-a-protected-characteristic-for-legislation

Wanderabout · 06/09/2018 13:34

Do you have a link to/source of documents please?

R0wantrees · 06/09/2018 13:28

July 4th 2018 James Kirkup 'Labour and Tories finally see the truth about the gender debate'
(extract)
"It is, again, a simple fact that people with penises have the potential to commit certain acts of violence and abuse against others. That fact is the reason Parliament and society accept the concept of single-sex spaces: women have a right to keep someone with a penis out of those spaces.

Upholding that legal right is possibly the founding principle of several women’s groups that have sprung up since the Government first announced its intent to make it easier for people to change their legal gender. Unlike the charities that lobby for transgender rights, the women’s groups - Woman’s Place UK, Fair Play for Women and ManFriday - have no corporate or public sector funding, and not much money at all. They are genuine grassroots political organisations that have sprung up from a concerned public. Those groups have made a difference. Back in the autumn, that point about female-only spaces was either often ignored or dismissed in political debate. Women talking about penises were ridiculed as bigoted cranks, accused of transphobic misinformation. Their meetings were subjected to violent protests (one person has been convicted of assault) and a bomb threat, threats that went shamefully unremarked on by most politicians. Nevertheless, the women persisted: the meetings continued; the campaigns went on; and it made a difference.

Yesterday on the Today programme, Penny Mordaunt, equalities Minister, didn’t dismiss those women as cranks. She said this:

“Those women who are raising those concerns, those are legitimate concerns that we need to address…We will listen to everyone’s voice in this consultation.” (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

stephLDS18 · 06/09/2018 13:28

I think there is some merit in what you say and that is how I interpret it BUT I am aware of some lawyers circulating extracts from a letter based on a legal opinion. Now, I have to say I am not convinced that the protected characteristic of Sex (F) applies to a TW without a GRC (otherwise what is the point of the GRA); however, that is the argument. I have asked for the full legal reasoning. This has not been provided (and this could be because counsel wrote the opinion for a client); however, if this is the interpretation being adopted by government then this is BIG!

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Ereshkigal · 06/09/2018 13:26

This is how the government originally justified to the trans lobby that they weren't going to make any changes to the EA. Discrimination by perception. Most (the overwhelming majority) MTF trans people are not protected sex characteristic "female". I agree that this achieves this by the back door, and we need to push for definitions to be tightened up in the EA and the recognition that it is not a reasonable belief that the likes of Jess Bradley, for instance, would have a GRC. And of course, stop the GRA being changed to admit lots more male into the legal female sex class.

Wanderabout · 06/09/2018 13:20

She hasn't defined 'transwomen' either.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 06/09/2018 13:07

This statement doesn’t say that a transwoman would benefit from exemptions in the Act afforded to women based on their sex, but rather that they are protected by the Act if someone should discriminate against them because they (the person doing the discriminating) believe that the man is a woman (e.g. if they pass really well or, in a paper exercise, have a woman’s name). This protection would apply to any man discriminated against because the person doing the discriminating believed that they were a woman, whether or not that man was in fact a transwoman.

What Penny Morduant is saying is right.

However, there is a concern that if the definition of woman is expanded to include men, then this could in theory lead to fewer acts being regarded as discriminatory under the Act.

stephLDS18 · 06/09/2018 13:07

It came from the Secretary of State! It is an on the record quote!

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WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 06/09/2018 13:05

I'd like to know where this came from too.

Starkstaring · 06/09/2018 13:02

But still refers to "gender reassignment" rather than self-declared "gender identity"

Procrastinator1 · 06/09/2018 12:58

Where is this from?