What would you say to a simple person that’s nice, but honestly thinks the world is equal?

Those are very clear and straightforward points speakingwoman.

I don't want to derail this thread but want to give some context to my previous post. It's often stated that men come on here to patronisingly 'educate' the regulars or tell them they're feministing wrong. Posters often say "what's it got to do with us women? Why don't you go and set up a men's charity if you're so desperate to help?" etc.

My point is that we have a situation where 4x as many men are currently killing themselves than women and evidently struggle to discuss it for the reasons previously discussed. I think few things could be more harmful to a vulnerable suicidal male than being told "suck it up mate, at least you don't have it as bad as women!" This will only alienate such individuals and it is a sad thing to see people actively trying to convince others that men have it so easy (rather than focusing on helping their own sex - ironically what people like me are told to do rather than challenge this harmful dialogue).

This attitude of 'men don't need help' has already led to various supportive events being cancelled. A good example is International Mens Day, which was going to focus on male suicide amongst other things. York University cancelled the event, despite a male student having committed suicide only days before, and the impetus was a 200 signature petition which was submitted in protest of the event - and they refused to reinstate it after a several thousand signature petition called for it to be rescheduled. Their official statement was that "we have withdrawn the original statement about International Men’s Day, and do not propose to mark this event formally. In gender equality, our main focus has been, and will continue to be, on the inequalities faced by women." And this in spite of them already celebrating Internation Women's Day and having a feminist society.

Another example is the politician Jess Phillips literally scoffing at a male MP's suggestion to celebrate this day. She commented that she was the only woman in the room and that "every day is International Men's Day" as her argument. I find it a bit unfathomable that she thinks these wealthy MPs are any reflection whatsoever of the general male population's lifestyle or bear any similarity to the many men taking their own lives every week - you could say "every week is Men's Suicide Week".

I really think that the above two examples of brushing aside well publicised events aimed at tackling male suicide just give the message that it's not important, and this is further compounded by spreading the falsehood that 'men have it easy'.

And watch how quickly I'm branded a misogynist/MRA for daring to say this.

1 men are on average bigger and stronger
2 women are vulnerable esp when giving birth
3 these things make a difference

Or not! Because that would be a very odd thing to fixate on.

The Fawcett society usually has lots of useful facts and figures that you might find helpful, LardLizard.

You could use the example that women have a forum on Radio 4 to discuss things of interest and concern to them, Ie Woman's hour, but men are not allowed the same.

It's not a competition. Men don't necessarily have it easier.

People respond best to examples they can relate to. If you want to explain the struggle some women face find an example of a woman you know who has dealt with discrimination or been overlooked. But be aware that race, socioeconomic status, physical and mental capacity and a whole range of factors can also lead to discrimination so your friend might be thinking of those people too.

Equality is good for society but terrible for the individual who has to come down a peg or too to achieve it. People like the principle but it's much better when it happens to other people!

The thing is, you know this person and we don't. I'd look at aspects of their life that are important to them and see if there is anything you can raise there.

My aim is to make them realise life is generally easier for men.

I'm not sure it is.

We are of course over-represented in positions of power but these men aren't the average bloke on the street. With 84 men a week killing themselves (it being the most common cause of death in males under 40) I think it's actually more likely that any given bloke will kill himself than attain any significant level of power/status. And should a man dare try and talk about that statistic he'll be branded an MRA/misogynist and told to shut up about those 84 men and focus on the two women that are killed each week by a couple of deviant blokes (who are undoubtedly not representative of the other several million UK men who don't commit murder).

If things were so bad for the average British feminist then surely focusing on becoming the next CEO of a FTSE company would be right down the list. Men are so good at enduring hardship that many women seem to have believed the stoic lie that we are ok (when in reality we just find it hard to open up emotionally and tend to pretend everything is 'fine' - until it gets too much and we kill themselves rather than accept help or be regarded as a failure/weak).

I suppose it depends on how you and they define equal.

The most obvious demonstration is the crime rate. 93% male perps is not equal to 7% female perps, or whatever your local break down is.
Almost all can never be equal to almost none.

If you want to challenge them (you don't necessarily have to), then I'd go down the route of raising some very clear and simple facts. So not the gender pay gap as that's not so straightforward to explain. The MPs and boardroom stats might be a good starting point.

Well, it depends what your objective is. Are you intent on shattering their optimistic view of the world?

Aargh!! I totally messed up those links! Will try again.

When they’re in pain, women wait longer in emergency departments and are less likely to be given effective painkillers than men

From this BBC article

Also, it affects women's health that the medical default is men, i.e. doctors learn how to treat men. Many doctors, (and most ordinary people) for example, don't realise that heart attacks can have different symptoms in women and men. If our society doesn't think this is important, then that's a big problem if you are a woman having a heart attack but your health professional doesn't recognise that as they've only been trained in recognising male heart attacks.

How about, that men get their pain taken more seriously when they go to the doctors?

When they’re in pain, women wait longer in emergency departments and are less likely to be given effective painkillers than men - from this article.
[[http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180518-the-inequality-in-how-women-are-treated-for-pain

Or that the medical default is men, so doctors learn how to treat men. Many doctors, (and most ordinary people) for example, don't realise that heart attacks can have different symptoms in women and men. If our society doesn't think this is important, then that's a big problem if you are a woman having a heart attack but your health professional doesn't recognise that as they've only been trained in recognising male heart attacks.

Both these medical examples (and many more) can result in - bottom line - loss of life for a woman, who would have been correctly diagnosed and treated in time if she were a man.

That's pretty unequal, I'd say.

Look at the number of women MPs vs male MPs.

The numbers of men in top jobs / on boards.

Who has the power?

I would ask them why they believe that. What would they expect to see if the world was equal, and what they would expect if it weren't?
Then we could explore together how we might find evidence supporting either possibility.

It's just obvious that the world isn't equal wrt sex inequality, other wise 2 women per week would also be murdering their male partner, and the prison population would be 50-50% males and females rather than 79,750 men and 3,870 women. We would have had rather more than 2 female prime ministers in the history of our Westminster government's existence...

When it comes to class / wealth inequality I mean that's another thing entirely. If anyone truly believes the world we live in has no wealth inequality I'd leave them alone.

What are you trying to explain to them ?

You don't have to fix everyone, sometimes the best thing to do is walk away.
Idk what you mean by 'simple'. If you mean someone with learning difficulties, leave them alone.