What would you say to a simple person that’s nice, but honestly thinks the world is equal?

What is it that you think she should be doing about it?

Lots of people accept that there are lots of inequalities between men and women, but aren't huge activists.

What do you think you will achieve by proving to her than men and women aren't equal? Is she in a position to do something about it in her job or life? Do you think she will do this?

Otherwise, why are you so invested in what she believes? It's frustrating, I agree. But not likely to have much of an impact one way or another.

In the UK it is equal, we have equality of opportunity for race and sex. Of course in most other parts of the world this isn't the case but to complain about inequality here and fight for it here is a long gone battle and is simply clinging to a won cause for the sake of itself.

I think one needs to explain that just because laws are in place to create equality, that doesn't actually mean there is equality. Because ultimately you can't legislate how people treat other people unfortunately.

You can say people aren't allowed to advertise their room for rent as only for white people, but if the owner has decided not to rent to a POC, there's not much you can do about it and they'll just go ahead and reject non-white applicants. Ditto for someone who decides not to take on young women for a job because she might have kids etc. It's hard to prove and people who are discriminated against don't have the time or the energy to investigate every time they don't get a offered a job or a place to rent etc.

There are more male MPs in the current Parliament than there have been female MPs in the whole history of the UK Parliament

''female circumcision is practiced among Christians across Africa,''

White Christians?

I agree that what happens in the UK becomes a 'Western' problem, but it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the average white British male is chopping off women's genitalia.

It's undoubtedly still a serious issue needing resolved, but I'm in no way responsible for it simply by virtue of being male.

Thanks Upstart for that link.

It's also pretty clear that FGM is a 'Western' issue as it's happening to women and girls who live right here, in the UK. But the whataboutery is strong in AllDayBreakfast, which is fine. I'll centre my activism and energy on women and girls, proud to do so. AllDay is of course free to centre their's wherever they wish.

Once you have your eyes open to it, you can’t unsee it. Do your friend a favour and leave well alone. It must be nice to live in ignorance!

'Simple' doesn't mean 'stupid'

Nothing

You can’t argue with stupid

''female circumcision is practiced among Christians across Africa,''
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4064295/

To be fair, forced marriage to underage girls and child rape is more the go to abuse amongst white Christian males.

Handy hint: if it isn't happening to men, it's a sex/gender issue. FFS.

Maybe you should've read my post more thoroughly.

I said it's as much a religious issue as it is a sex one. I know you'd prefer to be able to malign all men over it, but I'll bet you can't find an example of a white, Christian male committing religious FGM against a woman - it's only men that get their genitals cut in 'Western' society, which has been shown to have a myriad of issues and is usually done non-censensually to an infant.

Female socialisation is a hell of a drug.

So you think violent porn is being made for women allday?...because a...porn provider told you???? oooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkk......

You can try and undermine the evidence because you don't like it, but the fact is that the biggest porn website in the world analysed their user data and found that women were searching for degrading porn. Remember, most women aren't radical feminists even if they support gender equality and being dominated consistently ranks in surveys about female fantasies - thus explaining the huge popularity of 50 Shades of Grey.

As a white; English, male I can't speak to the FGM bit (I would predict that this is as much a ethnicity/religious based issue as it is a sex/gender one).

Handy hint: if it isn't happening to men, it's a sex/gender issue. FFS.

Do your suicide numbers exclude men who murder their partners and children and then kill themselves? Because the fucks I give about that are zero.

What about all the studies that show women still do the vast majority of housework and childcare, even when they also have full time jobs outside the home?. Huge inequality. Loads of studies, all showing the same thing, here's one
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/20/australian-women-spend-twice-as-much-time-on-childcare-and-chores-than-men
And just because it's so good:
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

“Sorry I’m so horrible that I call my friends simple on online forums. I really need to consider how I treat my friends. Tea or coffee?”

Would that work?

If someone is as you describe "simple" ( I don't like that description but hey ho ) then surely they may not even understand what you're trying to say to them op?

I get that you want to help but unless it will majorly impact on their life or quality of life then I would leave well alone.

It's fine to have an opinion of course but quite different to sit someone down and spell out what you want them to understand.

If this was for a child then I would fully understand. My 15yr old has Aspergers and sometimes I have to point out the most "simple" things to him even though he is on track to put me to shame with his GCSE results next year.
There are different levels of intelligence and just because someone appears "simple" it doesn't mean that they are inferior in any way ( and I'm not implying you said that ).

So you think violent porn is being made for women allday?...because a...porn provider told you???? oooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkk......

an epidemic of sexual violence, the increasing pornification of society and FGM.

As a.white; English, male I can't speak to the FGM bit (I would predict that this is as much a ethnicity/religious based issue as it is a sex/gender one). Regarding the 'pornification' of society, we disussed this on another thread a few days ago - data released by the world's biggest porn provider has suggested that women are over 100% more likely to search for violent porn than men, so it's definitely an interesting question as to why this is.

Men kill people a lot, including themselves.

I'm not sure that statistically two men out of many million committing murder each week is a lot, and the figures suggest that we are 42x more likely to kill ourselves than to kill women. However, this of course is still two women too many.

The question is how do we stop domestic incidents turning lethal? As I type this, there are dozens (hundreds?) of couples screaming at each other, drugs/alcohol involved in some cases, and on the verge of escalation into physical violence (from which the woman will nearly always fare worst).

@AllDayBreakfast Suicide is a society-wide issue. You're aware, I'm sure that despite male suicides being 4x higher than female suicides, female suicide attempts are typically twice as high as male attempts?

The high male rate is a reflection of more lethal methods, not that suicide is a particularly "male" problem. To reduce suicide, we need to look at the reasons both men and women are suffering such poor mental health.

I don't want to derail this thread but Men kill people a lot, including themselves.
We noticed, d00d, we noticed.
Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

Well women are also facing an epidemic of sexual violence, the increasing pornification of society and FGM. But I offered an example for someone whom the Op has categorised as gentle, not an example to counter your point about male suicide.

LordVonny.

I agree with your point about toxic masculinity but I still can't fathom why sone feminists actively try and block events intended to help men - there are quite a few other examples.

And without meaning to be combative, your point about female leaders further demonstrates to me the differing challenges men and women face. Women are facing a lack of female leaders (which does need to be addressed no doubt) and men are facing a mass epidemic of suicide.

Worrying about being a CEO is probably the last thing on a suicidal male's mind.

See @AllDayBreakfast I think it's toxic masculinity that causes the outrageously high levels of male suicide. Men are taught by other men to hide their emotions and not access help. Feminism challenges this, by challenging gender stereotypes. But it's not the primary aim of feminism, and actually that's ok.

Women and men also attempt suicide at roughly the same rates, men are more 'successful' because they choose more violent methods. Again, I'd put that down to toxic masculinity.

Op to answer your question (or perhaps to give you some insight as to where this person is coming from): I read this McKinsey report earlier that stated over 50% of men and 30% of women think their company has equal representation when 10% of the leaders are female. So to put that another way, just one female leader in ten is enough to make most people think that their work-world is fair and equal.