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Original poster

Who's going to the WEP Conference this weekend? Fancy a thread?

209 replies

RhymesWithOrange · 04/09/2018 22:22

I'm the only person I know going. I would be interested to get others MNers thoughts on the conference and the agenda as it happens.

And of course the emergency debate.

OP posts:
Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 16:18

@Angryresister no, no discussions at all about practical implications. Just a load of legalese.

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Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 16:16

BettyAlso the hoops that disabled people and other trying to access benefits they are entitled to. Why do trans think they should be exempt from being examined ?

Indeed. They are very entitled and expect to get everything they demand instantly. Strange, for the most oppressed individuals in history.

Angryresister · 08/09/2018 16:13

However it is interesting to see topics generally of concern to women. Quite refreshing in fact!

Angryresister · 08/09/2018 16:11

Was anything said about the sport for girls and women topic?

Angryresister · 08/09/2018 16:09

BettyAlso the hoops that disabled people and other trying to access benefits they are entitled to. Why do trans think they should be exempt from being examined ?

Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 16:05

Extract

^In other words, where a person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment but does not have a GRC, their comparator class in looking at a discrimination claim is other members of their birth sex who are not proposing reassignment. Once they do have a GRC, their comparator class is members of their acquired sex.

This means that if the GRA is amended so that self-declaration is all that is needed, Green would have had the comparator class of females rather than males and would have had a good case not just for access to the tights, wigs, prosthetic vagina and sanitary towels sought, but also for removal to the women’s estate, because the comparator class would become females. Whilst Green was disqualified for want of a dysphoria diagnosis, the comparator class remained males."

speakingwoman · 08/09/2018 16:05

Good article.

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 16:02

No more time for questions Sad GCs regrouping again.

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Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 16:02

Barrister is Julian Norman I think who recently wrote this article

t.co/Ixh6MiHxCL?amp=1

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 16:01

Safe to say that barrister is on our side.

Answer for second question first:

Not been decided in case law. Service would have to show legitimate aim and proportionate response to achieve that aim.

So the exemption is there in the EA but has not been tested if this trumps the GRA.

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BettyDuMonde · 08/09/2018 16:00

Re: hoop jumping - Not even just asylum seekers but non EU spouses too.

My first husband (of 3 so far 😂) was from the USA (still is, we’re divorced, I didn’t kill him!) and the paperwork and cost of getting a fiancé visa, a spousal visa, indefinite leave to remain and citizenship is enormous, stressful and takes years.

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:58

Onto questions:

Another barrister asking questions - conflicts between GRA and EA.

  1. Definition of "trans" includes cross dressers
  2. Not possible to exclude people with a GRC from single sex services.
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Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:55

Other possible amendments

Cost
Privacy/disclosure protections (in s22 GRA)
Minimum age criterion of 18 will stay
Amends to EqA ruled out but some questions in consultation about: single sex sport, shared accommodation and single sex services
Question whether non binary should be legally recognised?

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speakingwoman · 08/09/2018 15:54

Thanks.

They are misguided but sincere I guess

Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 15:51

Claire McCann advised the government at the time of the Miller Trans Inquiry.

Don't know about the other, Catherine Casserley, but she is listed as a formal supporter of the WEP GRA motion to be debated tomorrow. So must be a pro trans WEP member.

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:51

Proposed changes:

  1. Terminology to cover all identities
  2. GRA says sex is ASSIGNED at birth (as opposed to observed) FFS
  3. Definitions of gender identity and gender dysphoria

Mechanism for legal recognition

Is the current process for trans people to achieve legal recognition too intrusive or bureaucratic?

Options:
Remove requirements for
Medical diagnosis
Lived experience
Spousal consent (replace with spousal notification)

Above is considered too intrusive.

In my head I'm thinking about the hoops we make asylum seekers to jump through - and we think the GRC process is too onerous ?

Other questions:

Are there alternatives to existing evidential evidence?
Require a reflection period?
Retain a statutory declaration?

NB: gender recognition devolved to Scotland

OP posts:
PyeWackets · 08/09/2018 15:49

...and again why is this women's problem to solve? Why must always give stuff up to men 'cos they want it? Bah, I'm a wep member so following with interest, thanks for the thread.

speakingwoman · 08/09/2018 15:48

Who are they?

speakingwoman · 08/09/2018 15:48

As a practising lawyer I’m confused about these political barristers.

Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 15:45

She doesn't sound like a nice barrister lady. She sounds like a throwing women under the bus while misrepresenting the truth barrister lady. My GC friend there is live messaging this to me.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/09/2018 15:43

Hmm. As I remember it the methodology of that survey was so flawed that the findings should pretty much be ignored.

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:42

National survey by the way - all self reported.

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Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:41

National LGBT Survey in 2017

Showed that discrimination, stigma, harassment of trans people was rife.

I WONDER WHAT THEY WOULD FIND IF THEY SURVEYED WOMEN FFS

(That was my own thought by the way, not the nice barrister lady)

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Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:38

Why seek a GRC?

No need for GRC to change name and gender on passport, driving license.
No need for GRC to acquire protection under s7 EqA
Require GRC to change birth certificate

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Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 08/09/2018 15:36

Current govt consultation based on estimates that 500k people in the UK identity as trans.

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