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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lived experience trumps yours ... discussion with a friend

53 replies

LePetitLarousse · 04/09/2018 12:15

I'm quite new to these discussions, but from everything I've read here, I've come to agree with the gender critical position (or rather the GC position basically reflects what I've intuitively thought for a long time).

I have a friend who posts a lot about trans issues and I decided to ask privately why that was. I explained that I had come to take a GC position, and her argument was that one side was the oppressed - those who know what they`re talking about because of their lived experience, and that one side was trying to deny their existence. I replied that isn't that what many GC feminists are arguing. That the lived experiences of women matter too, and it women's spaces that are being lost. She retorted that it was nonsense, and anyway, didn't have the time to "tutor" me. I needed to read more about arguments against TERFs, and shared a terrible cartoon (Life of Bria).

What struck me was the absolute arrogance and certainty and unquestioning that her side of the debate was right, and anyone else needed to be tutored. Is this a common attitude experienced in discussing these issues?

OP posts:
Juells · 04/09/2018 12:36

The hatred towards women is worse than at any time before in my lifetime. Where before men who claimed to be civilised had to pretend they didn't hate us, now they've been emboldened because it's actually a virtue to abuse women and scream that they should be burned or raped or punched. We're not even allowed to be women anymore, because the important people men want that word for themselves.

It's fucking depressing.

Toddleoo · 04/09/2018 12:21

Have had similar experiences, I'd say it's common purely because the loudest voices are most noticeable. To be charitable I think perhaps someone who is trans and is completely against being defined at all by their biology just can't begin to understand why it's so important to women to have their biology recognised and respected.

To be uncharitable I think some transpeople are just mysoginists in another guise and have no wish to respect women's feelings or rights.

BettyDuMonde · 04/09/2018 12:21

Yes. Yes it is.

The hashtag #nodebate was very popular for a while. I guess they realised it was a bit Orwellian (or that the debate was happening without them?) because it’s fallen by the wayside of late!

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