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Original poster

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!

159 replies

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 14:10

Given how much recent news has been horrifying I thought some of us could do with a laugh, so hear you go - Robert Smith's eyeliner is oppressive to people who want everyone to know that wearing makeup means you're a woman.

www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/06/23/goth_culture_needs_to_embrace_the_gender_identities_of_all_its_members.html

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MorrisZapp · 03/09/2018 16:53

Custard slices wtf? Next it'll be what, empire biscuits?

silentcrow · 03/09/2018 16:50

Jesus wept, these people will be transing poor Sophie Lancaster as a prize in the oppression Olympics next. And then every Thai man with a sarong.

Although I note the writer is "Russian-American" - are we sure this isn't all just coming out of a Russian troll farm to further destabilise America?

I'll get my (tin foil) hat. Grin

Queenofthedrivensnow · 03/09/2018 16:49

@Amortentia there's a cracking parody article right there....

AncientLights · 03/09/2018 16:47

I tried, I really did. But just couldn't get past the layer upon layer of self-obsessed twaddle. I'd like to put this person on a plane and fly them to, oh I dunno, Sudan (north or south, no matter) and let them see what life is like for a huge swathe of the world's population.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 16:44

I kept wondering what exactly the author wanted done to Jaden Smith as punishment for wearing a skirt while being happy to be referred to as "he".

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Neolara · 03/09/2018 16:44

I have absolutely no idea what that article was on about.

IdahoJones · 03/09/2018 16:44

Really is the height of privilege when you want to pose as an oppressed group and oppress everyone else at the same time

Such a good summary from Toddleoo

Forgotthebins · 03/09/2018 16:40

The article about goths is actually hilarious. However, that piece in the Independent about Jaden Smith is outright disturbing in a Handsmaid's Tale way though, trying to rule on what people must wear to signal their reproductive potential... ewk.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 16:40

Having seen a few people like the author of the article irl I can't help but observe that their clothes may identify as well tailored, but...

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ChiaraRimini · 03/09/2018 16:38

@Amortentia pantomime dames surely are trans accordingly to Stonewall definition.

numberseven · 03/09/2018 16:38

Can we talk about me?

Let's! I'm certain you are much more interesting than the transgoth.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 16:30

I wonder if I'm goth fluid nowadays, since I can't be bothered to do the makeup except for special occasions.

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Amortentia · 03/09/2018 16:30

Lol, if they’re coming for the goths now, who’s next? I look forward to calls for the banning of pantomime dames. Men pretending to be women for comedic value must surely be transphobic.

noeffingidea · 03/09/2018 16:29

This is the flipside of not wanting women to stop wearing makeup, because transwomen need heavy makeup to have any chance of passing. Everyone has to fit into gender stereotypes for the benefit of transpeople.

LassWiADelicateAir · 03/09/2018 16:24

(I want to exclusively eat custard slices, because custard slices, but also want not to get type 2 diabetes and scurvy. It's a dilemma.)

Oh tell me about. The havoc custard slices plays with fitting into my dresses leaves me sleepless.

LassWiADelicateAir · 03/09/2018 16:22

I'm 59. I don't think I have enough time left on the planet to read more than 2 paragraphs.

on the other hand, is an individual saying “this is me” while those around them assume they just haven’t read the manual

Much like my penchant for expensive, highly tailored 40s and 50s style dresses is me saying "this is me"

Can we talk about me?

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 16:17

What would they have made of me with my lipstick and tattoos and DMs?

Nonbinary? Agender?

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kalinkafoxtrot45 · 03/09/2018 16:14

I spent most of my student years chasing adorable gothy chaps with eyeliner AND hairy chests. Obviously I was doing it all wrong, since eyeliner is for lassies and hairy chests for laddies, and breaking down rigid gender categories is, well, what? What would they have made of me with my lipstick and tattoos and DMs? 🙄

AbsintheFriends · 03/09/2018 16:03

That's the grievance I picked out of the miasma of self-pity Doobigetta. FtM goths want to be all masculine and recognised as chaps (because Trans) but need to wear eyeliner and lipstick (because Goth) and ITS SO UNFAIR.

(I want to exclusively eat custard slices, because custard slices, but also want not to get type 2 diabetes and scurvy. It's a dilemma.)

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 15:58

An aesthetic built on subverting gender norms also reinforces those same norms by constantly referencing them, and whether one’s gender presentation is read as subversive or subpar still depends on how digestible it is to mainstream society.

Consider the possibility that a. most people aren't as obsessed with "gender" as you are and thus aren't being as judgy as you think and b. this is partly because despite what your narcissism may be telling you you are not the star of anyone else's life story.

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Doobigetta · 03/09/2018 15:53

So, male goths wearing makeup isn’t fair, because then if a mtf goth wears makeup people just think he’s the same as the male goths and not special? And male goths wearing makeup isn’t fair, because ftm goths then have to wear makeup to be like them and people just think they’re female goths? Have I got that right?
OH, THE HUMANITY.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 03/09/2018 15:44

This thread has made me very nostalgic for the gorgeous boys with eyeliner from my youth. It’s ridiculous how backwards we seem to have gone with gender stereotyping.

I’ve always loved the Goth aesthetic but could never pull it off myself.

CarolinePooter · 03/09/2018 15:38

"I'm trapped in the binary" is my new complaint for when I need tea and sympathy.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 15:37

I'm pretty sure Russell Brand is a werewolf. If he was intending to signal possession of a ladygender presumably he'd do something about the chest hair?

I just can't wrap my head around the way people like both authors linked see the world. It's like being trapped in an Emily Howard skit, but if you laugh they'll thump you.

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Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 15:34

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, that writer.

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