Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!

Wow I too was a goth teen. I'm 30 now and still partial to a chap in eyeliner.

I vividly remember discovering the New York Dolls in my dad's vinyl collection and convincing my poor 17 year old boyfriend to dress up like Johnny Thunders. They were both manly as fuck!

Their best tune of course is Personality Crisis - and I rather love the irony

I used to dress up as Adam Ant as a kid. Was I dressing as a man or was he actually a woman? Who was subverting gender here? I need a lie down.

Lucifer's guyliner both evil and just horny - I'd do him either way. Wait. Does that mean he's a woman and I'm now gay?

I usually loathe the term first world problems but this self indulgent article is the epitome of just that.

The author I imagine would be aghast to learn that those of us over 40 even survived through glam rock just fine with zero gender confusion.

Kenyatta looks about as much like a goth as my mum tbh, apart from a few piercings and some interesting sideburns which could just as easily be industrial-influenced.

Excuse me but to whom do I complain about the indie lads in eyeliner and skinny tshirts I fucked in the late 90/early 00s?

Dunno... (shit, that’s a LOT of paperwork I just don’t have time for right now...)

I feel like this article has actually been lifted from Viz

since coming out as genderqueer, Kenyatta JP Garcia felt pressured to change makeup routines and color palettes

From dark black to a more pastel black perchance?

I suspect the lucifer chap has distichiasis - a genetic mutation which gives you a double row of eyelashes (liz Taylor had this.) however I’d need a very close up look to conform this ;) I’ll take one for the team ...

I feel a bit sad about this actually - all the goths I knew were very into breaking down, rather than reinforcing, stereotypes

I read this, rolled my eyes, then clicked on a link to an interview with the creator of non-binary emoji. Because the most important issue of our time is not feeling represented by a fucking emoji.

www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/06/30/paul_hunt_made_gender_inclusive_emoji_for_non_binary_individuals.html

Do you think the writer of that Independent article has ever heard of David Bowie? Or, you know, kilts.

Where has all the fun gone?
This whole thing is like those N Korean things I saw with a pictoral list of the 8 allowed haircuts for males.
Such massive enforcement of very extreme gender presentations for the majority, in order that the minority don't do unnoticed when they adopt the things for the other / and can be easily reconised as subversive.

Mate if your gran doesn't bat an eyelid at your new subversive attire then it's not her who's missed a trick.

Writersblock

Oh me too. Apart from Jonny Depp, who (it turns out) is a tosser.

Rufus Hound doing Fight For This Love for Comic Relief gave me funny feelings

"This is the flipside of not wanting women to stop wearing makeup, because transwomen need heavy makeup to have any chance of passing. Everyone has to fit into gender stereotypes for the benefit of transpeople."

This.

Does your eye shadow mean you’re goth, or does it mean you’re trans?

No mate; it means you like wearing eyeshadow.

All sorted

Bloody hell. It's like an explosion in a adjectives factory. Will try to finish it.... going in now....

I rather like a bloke in eyeliner.

I'd like to say they are just doing goth it all wrong, but given the number of my 40/50 something goth mates who have fallen down the rabbit hole & think I'm a BIGOT...

Wayne Hussey, IIRC, never gave a shit about any of this. Come back late 80s. All is forgiven.

Gosh. That Independent article. C'mon, which one of you wrote it?

Blimey. I'm not even sure I understand the tortuous argument (thank you pp for the succinct explanation), but of all people surely Goths are the least likely to have a problem with people wearing whatever the fuck they want?

It's so sad how things have gone. In the 90s half my male friends were running around in mini skirts and fishnet tights. Some were gay, some definitely weren't. One was trans (M to F) and a deeply tortured but lovely soul who clearly had huge issues in their life. No-one gave a shit, it was a hugely inclusive subculture and you could be whoever you fancied being that weekend.

reminisces about the gorgeous eyelinered indie boys and goths of my youth

Vikings used to wear tons of eye liner. And hair jewellery. That is my excuse for wearing it.

That Independent article is hilarious.

Oh no - as pantomime season approaches will the TRAs rise up in fury at c*s men taking trans roles?

Amortentia pantomime dames surely are trans accordingly to Stonewall definition

I think you might be right, which just goes to show how absurd the current situation is.

Amortentia there's a cracking parody article right there

I would be amazed if no one has done it yet, but if not I would like to see it.