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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!

159 replies

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 14:10

Given how much recent news has been horrifying I thought some of us could do with a laugh, so hear you go - Robert Smith's eyeliner is oppressive to people who want everyone to know that wearing makeup means you're a woman.

www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/06/23/goth_culture_needs_to_embrace_the_gender_identities_of_all_its_members.html

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Yambabe · 03/09/2018 22:36

Well there were a lot of rumours that there actually were 2 Nikkis.....

Google Matthew Trippe, I remember the story when it broke in Kerrang!

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:23

Sorry, she. They? Take enough recreational chemicals and you may well start to think there are 3 of you.

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AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:22

Nikki Sixx is a woman! My, he certainly is a strapping not so young lass, isn't he?

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Pumpkinsarepurple · 03/09/2018 22:20

What a load of self obsessed clap trap, when I was younger, just like Yambabe, all the hottest sleaziest rockers wore make-up, try telling Poison, Motley Crue et.al, that they were insulting trans identified people.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 22:01

It's the universe's fault that Kuill's makeup application skills are shit. And also that they decided to call themselves Kuill, which people no doubt assume indicates either that they wanted to call themselves Kill but wimped out at the last minute, or that they can't spell.

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Ereshkigal · 03/09/2018 21:58

Kuill came out as agenderer*^ at age 26 and, seven years later, routinely encounters a problem that makes me want to rage-quit the universe: being read as a poorly made-up drag queen, even in fully styled pin-up goth looks.

I just broke a rib laughing. Or rage quit the universe. One of those two Grin

Yambabe · 03/09/2018 21:46

It's not just goths who like a man in eyeliner though, us sleazy rockers are quite partial. I'm going to take this opportunity to show you a couple of pictures I took this weekend.

Well just this one really. Exhibit A.

This is Phil (with the bandana). He is no stranger to guyliner and flicky hair although consensus is that his current hair may not be entirely ahem natural. Phil first came to my attention in 1980 when he was singing in a band called Girl, even though they were all boys. He was also a z-list celebrity at the time as he was Britt Eckland's much younger boyfriend. His look back then was somewhat androgynous to be sure, but his sexuality was never in doubt.

With Phil is his friend Traci, who has a girl's name but is also very definitely not a girl. Traci wears less makeup than Phil, but has more hair. He is actually the "Guns" in Guns N Roses, for all you trivia fans, although he left before they got famous.

I was watching these guys from the crowd. I don't have short hair but I was wearing cut-off denim shorts and a t-shirt with their band name on that I bought nearly 30 years ago. Oh and less make-up than either of them. Less make-up than the guy stood next to me too actually.

They don't give a shit about stereotypes and gender conforming, and nor do I.

Do your own thing. Be more Phil!

Some lighter reading - gender non-confirming goths oppress trans people!
MrsTerryPratchett · 03/09/2018 21:17

I was literally just trying to convince DH to wear eyeliner yesterday. He'd look super-delicious. He refused, citing the Depp defense.

Am I gay now or not?

ChattyLion · 03/09/2018 21:14

Hmm I think we may need to ask @CesiraAndEnrico and the Stickerwomen to do a short run of Women don’t have Penises designs for goth venues?
Maybe with a subtle nest of vipers design in the background?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3342172-Thread-2-Anti-trans-vandals-are-plastering-vile-women-don-t-have-penises-stickers-around-THE-WORLD?pg=1&order=

rememberatime · 03/09/2018 21:12

So does this mean that every time a woman wears trousers or jeans, no make up and short hair, she is potentially triggering a trans person. Because dressing as a man is reserved solely for men and transmen.

Or does the argument not apply in reverse?

ifonlyus · 03/09/2018 21:09

The author seems to be suggesting that goths abandon gender non-conformity including men wearing makeup, so that extra special non-binary gender queer people can be recognised as extra special non-binary gender queer people, and not get 'mistaken' for normal boring men or women

That's it in a nutshell. Thank you. Imagine being that self-absorbed.

frogsoup · 03/09/2018 20:56

Eyeliner. Tim Minchin.

JellySlice · 03/09/2018 20:53

But surely nobody could be that self-absorbed and narcissistic ....

GrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrinSad

NothingOnTellyAgain · 03/09/2018 20:50

HerFemaleness yes that's it

Raises a question though

Is teh author assuming the gender of all the other goths they see / meet out and about?

ChattyLion · 03/09/2018 20:45
Grin
hugoagogo · 03/09/2018 20:38

If you pick up on it quick, you can say you were there...

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 20:25

This time TRAs really have misjudged women's limits, pushed us too far, took us for granted...

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ChattyLion · 03/09/2018 20:21

I would say I’m sorry if I thought that it would change his mind.

HerFemaleness · 03/09/2018 20:16

I don't really understand what I've just read. The author seems to be suggesting that goths abandon gender non-conformity including men wearing makeup, so that extra special non-binary gender queer people can be recognised as extra special non-binary gender queer people, and not get 'mistaken' for normal boring men or women. But surely nobody could be that self-absorbed and narcissistic ....

AspieAndProud · 03/09/2018 20:11

Ridicule is nothing to be scared of.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 20:11

Have his bats left the belltower, do we think?

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AspieAndProud · 03/09/2018 20:09

Jumping the shark, more like. In a tutu.

ChattyLion · 03/09/2018 19:55

He’s totally jumping someone else’s train.

BeyondAnOmnishambles · 03/09/2018 19:28

Checking my cis-goth privilege here, like a good girl...

AngryAttackKittens · 03/09/2018 19:21

Love the New York Dolls!

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