MPs to decide whether to make misogyny a hate crime

arranfan That's great. It shows OJ using TERF.

The exchange I saw was one in which OJ claimed never to have used the term.

Another twitter user then suggested he was deleting old posts where he did

I can't find it. ☹️

@thecatfromjapan - any help here?

twitter.com/owenjones84/status/793400519909842944?lang=en

I've looked all over and I CAN'T find the tweet about OJ.

I'm sorry. I should have saved a link, or something.

This is a lesson to me about always providing a reference.

Oops. That was for the NSPCC thread in AIBU.

Fits here though (and on almost every other thread currently active on FWR!) so I won’t request a deletion

I know I am already dedicated to cause of preserving single sex facilities (and sporting categories and accurate crime data recording and the right to political assembly and representation) so I’m not exactly a unbiased observer...

But how anyone can look at the links supplied by various posters to back up multiple assertions about really dubious THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING NOW is utterly beyond me.

It really is like Where’s Wally. It can take a while, but once you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it.

This legislation can't come soon enough imo.

My very confident DD, who works in a very male-dominated environment, was recently cat-called and sexually harassed on the street. But it wasn't a crime because she's a woman.

She was so upset and really shaken by it. It's about time this was a crime too- if she had been gay, trans or BME it would have been.

Not holding out much hope that the old white men who make up the majority of parliament will get it in any way.

I think it's a good move.

Rather embarrassing but I had to google what the word misogyny meant in my 30's. I'm grateful I never really had to know what it was but I think it's pertinent as I think not many people know what it is. Many misogynistic attitudes and acts are normalised when we are teens and early 20s. Women learn to expect it, men learn it's how you can choose to act unless your moral compass is very astute.

Owen Jones has been getting ahead of the game, though: deleting all tweets where he used the epithet, 'TERF'. Not that TERF is a lie, of course.

Pretty sure there are screen shots.

My Nottingham residing friend reported some street harassment under the pilot and said the police she spoke to were excellent.

No need to drag anyone through the courts for minor crimes though - fines will do!

Think of it as like fly tipping, if you like? After all, wolf whistling and fly tipping are both a selfish person dumping their crap into the world at the expense of others.

The same way current hate crimes are determined I suppose: the police investigate the motives of the crime.

*NotBadConsidering

Hitting a person at a protest = crime.
Hitting a person at a protest because they’re a woman whose protesting raises a man’s anger at such a thing = hate crime.*

How do you determine this, exactly?

I’m a feminist, FesteringCarbuncle, which is why I’m posting on this board. Am I not
allowed a slightly different viewpoint?

Anyway my post isn’t really about men - it’s about the nature of hate crime legislation and how unhelpful it is, whatever the personal characteristic in question.

hilbobaggins

That’s not how hate crimes work. It would have to be a crime first, then it would have to be decided whether misogyny played a role, making it a hate crime.

For example, arson is a crime. Burning down a mosque could be a hate crime. Theoretical example in this instance:

Hitting a person at a protest = crime.
Hitting a person at a protest because they’re a woman whose protesting raises a man’s anger at such a thing = hate crime.

gets popcorn

No man had been pulled through the courts for the minor types of hate crime. Serious one should go to court to ensure that men have a fair trial.

However any type of reportedly hate crime must be investigated.

And where a anti social behaviour has been indetified, then the police may have a word with the men involved. Since most men are actually not wanting to cause women distress and tend to be nice guys, this has been shown in Nottingham to make men reconsider their behaviour. To realise that what they thought was normal fun is actually disrespectful and hurtful to women.

The only men who would be against this therefore are the ones who are not respectful and caring about women in general.

And perhaps men and women in an over stretched police force

Is he definitely deleting the tweets? i’ve searches and found a few but maybe he just had so many in the first place it was understandable he’d miss a couple.

But Owen’s in the right side of history? Why would he need to delete tweets?

See, in other circumstances, the need of Owen Jones and people in the Green Party to delete tweets, might raise questions, and be classed as a very astute observation. But, as you say - given they are on the right side of history about safeguarding issues and respecting boundaries, and this absolutely not being a form of social control...I confess myself baffled.

Not bad.
7 posts before a but what about the men post
Its usually within the first 4 posts

I absolutely hate this idea. It’s yet more evidence of the anti-progressive left attempting to control freedom of speech and freedom of thought. The idea of men being pulled through the courts for wolf-whistling, or making comments, or looking at someone in a way that is perceived inappropriate by the alleged victim, is nauseating.

I don’t understand why the left has become so enslaved to the idea that literally policing peoples’ speech - and really their thoughts - is a good idea. There are already laws that protect us from crimes such as violence, harassment and stalking. Hate crime legislation makes us all more divided as a society and more conscious of our differences, not less. I find the whole thing grim.

I believe Nottinghamshire Police have been test driving this. Apparently all concerned, mostly men, were shocked at how many women had to endure these things all day

whistling
cat calls
groping
sexual assault
rape
flashing
upskirting
invasion of personal space

I have probably missed some out. There was a thread on here, the original statement from the Police was interesting.

Owen Jones is regularly on the wrong side of history, that's why he keeps changing which one he's on. Huda Elmi needs to realise how that word is used too...it's a disgrace for politicians to adopt it.

But the principle of having a law against misogyny/woman hate is a good one. Long overdue and could protect a lot of girls and women.

More legislation against woman-hating shouldn’t be rejected because of appropriation. That can be argued against and dealt with separately.

Otherwise we’d be letting women haters win by calling for fewer legal protections for ourselves, surely?

Ah Owen Jones. This was an interesting letter to Owen from a gay man

whoiscis.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/gay-man-to-gay-man-an-open-letter-to-owen-jones/

How's that going to work if you can self-identify?

Yes my thoughts exactly - if gender is used as a basis for hate crime then any criticism of red flag behaviour could be deemed "hate". I note the police /CPS want a review of all the hate crime legislation which would seem a sensible move - there needs to be more evidence required around the so-called harm caused - having limits placed on red flag and harmful stalking and threatening behaviour is not the same as calling wolf. I think they should expand the stalking and coercive control law to cover all of this so that all the aggressive silencing and threats can be prosecuted - then we just have the problem of actually collecting the evidence and pressurising the police to prosecute

Owen Jones has been getting ahead of the game, though: deleting all tweets where he used the epithet, 'TERF'. Not that TERF is a lie, of course.

Ah sinking ship comes to mind. It won't cover up misogyny though

Is this also going to apply to femanist who hate men?, just a thought.
If so then a lot of threads on Mums Net will be banned .

Did an adult just type that? WTAF is being taught in schools these days???