MPs to decide whether to make misogyny a hate crime

How about if a woman looks up a mans kilt, is that a hate crime

What a brilliant example. And in an AMAZING COINCIDENCE, upskirting is already illegal in Scotland. How weird that in the one part of the UK that it's likely to happen to men, it's already illegal.

I'm fairly sure I know when something is a sexed crime. I've been threatened by an equal opportunity arsehole. Not a hate crime. But when someone threatens you, muttering, "bitch, cunt, I'll fuck you up" and similar every time they see you, I'm fairly sure they're a misogynist.

How about if a woman looks up a mans kilt, is that a hate crime?.
To describe been wolf whistled by a man as a hate crime is ridiculous, if anything it is the complete opposite .
Women do wolf whistle men as well, do they do it because they hate the man?, of course not.
I think the femanist need to find something else to whine about.

existing power differentials between groups

I think that the law ought to keep the concept of protected characteristics as they are, ie race, sexual orientation etc - and that 'sex' should be added to the list too. However, the differentials you refer to can be considered at the sentencing of those convicted.

Misandry is a ridiculous made up word by MRAs to try to create a false equivalence.

But bringing it up does highlight something that irritates me about the wording of hate crime and equality law- that it doesn't explicitly mention existing power differentials between groups.

"It feels unbalanced. Why not misandry too?"

Are you joking? Well, when misandry is as widespread and problematic as the ingrained misogyny in our society then maybe that would be a proportionate response.

Why on earth would you think that adding one more aspect to current hate crime legislation would mean non-hate crimes suddenly have more lenient sentences? Do you currently feel terribly upset by the fact that perpetrators of assault may get a less severe sentence than perpetrators of assault aggravated by race hate for example?

I don't like it. It feels unbalanced. Why not misandry too?

Also: if I am a victim of a man's crime, I'm not sure I want him to be treated more leniently because it's proved he 'wasn't misogynistic'. Maybe he upskirted me for a bet. Or are we saying that any upskirting is de factor misogynistic, in which case why do we need to add anything? Can there in fact even be non-misogynistic upskirting or sexual harassment?

Presumably if 'misogynists' are treated more harshly, then 'non-misogynists' will be treated less harshly, but they have committed the same crime.

And how on earth does a man prove he's not secretly, deep down, just a little bit.... a misogynist?

I can see lots of pointless expensive hours in court and not many extra prosecutions.

It isn't some bashful fellas who don't know how to approach lovely ladies, it is men who are trying to unnerve women in order to assert their dominance. It is bullying women because women are women.

This.

It is irritating that when people speak about street harassment, everyone is so bloody delicate about it and speak only of wolf whistling and calls of "pretty lady!".

The reality is that some things I have heard said to friends, to myself, etc are far more threatening and degrading. Eg - a friend whistling a tune as she walked - a man says "You know what they do to chickens that peep - they slit their throats", another - "I'd like to part your arse cheeks", another "fat slag!", another "ugly slag!" another "you like that don't you" (whilst groping), etc, etc.

It isn't some bashful fellas who don't know how to approach lovely ladies, it is men who are trying to unnerve women in order to assert their dominance. It is bullying women because women are women. Women should be legally protected from being bullied by randoms as we simply go about our business, as should BAME people, lesbian and gay people, etc.

If you think women are dangerous and men are not, why do you want to share spaces with women. To Vicky.

Did she report him to the police?

Not been following it but think you mean BB

It has been all over the press and tv a hate crime committed by a woman saying sha was punched violently by a man on a tv show.
She has now admitted that it was a false allegation.
This was clearly done to make the man look like a bully and an abuser.
This is a clear case of masandry and needs to be treated as a crime as should be misogyny.
Or do the femanist think this law shouldn't apply to women?.

Yeah, I agree Nothing. There's literally no reason why if it's deemed a hate crime to target someone because they are black / Muslim / gay / disabled etc, the definition shoudln't also include "female"

While this sounds like a good idea, you just know that the first prosecution will be against someone who "misgendered" a man pretending to be a woman.

I know that some on here are against the idea of having "hate crimes" in principle.

My view is that if we have them, then having the protected characteristics on the list apaart from sex is just a massive fuck you to women.

Owen used terf, and not just to discuss its meaning and use. He used it.

Also just in case (look at Owen's tweet that Ruth was quote tweeting):

And as others have said, you would have to have committed a crime first, before the hate aspect could be considered. It isn't a stand alone thing.

Ah ok (really should do my research).

I pretty much assumed that it was going to legitimise arrest for anti-female 'hate speech, which could be a slippery road.

I have some reservations just because we've all seen how the concept of hate crime particularly when it pertains to speech can be weaponised against individuals or groups.

However if all the other protected characteristics are covered against hate crime then it's reasonable to include misogyny also.

And as others have said, you would have to have committed a crime first, before the hate aspect could be considered. It isn't a stand alone thing.

Not if you're not being misogynist whilst you do it.

I think in principle it makes sense, but I can see people trying to abuse the new laws. For instance, will somebody who vocally disagrees with feminists be eligible for arrest as a misogynist?

I, personally, am a supporter of female empowerment/equality etc, but I frequently disagree with posters on here and have angered some before.

Just-in-cases...

That's a brilliant letter, Brave and Stunning: thank you for linking to it.

I'd like to send it to Peter Tatchell and the entire Stonewall leadership.

Plus an embedded link from a Catherine Bennett piece in Guardian: Bullies everywhere delight in coming up with new insults

Progressive head scratching as to what word might project the same corrective menace as terf (originally a small group’s chosen acronym, now applied at random), seems to have ended officially with this offering from my Guardian colleague, Owen Jones. “If,” he mused last week, “TERF’ [Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist] is unacceptable, let’s just use ‘transphobe’ and ‘transphobic’, problem solved.” Given that this guidance comes from the man who admirably closed down “chav” because it “demonised” the working classes, there seems every chance that “transphobe” will become the approved term for people who think, for instance, that there might be one or two arguments for preserving certain women-only spaces.

The link wouldn't embed in the quotation above, it is: twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/930519263533830145