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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brighton Argus article on Allsorts

79 replies

iamawoman · 01/09/2018 10:00

So happy this is out there now in brighton particularly as I was told by my infant school child that he learnt at school that boys can also be girls

www.theargus.co.uk/news/16613963.there-is-nothing-anti-trans-in-this-school-pack/

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SuburbanRhonda · 04/09/2018 20:18

I donated to the crowdfunder for printing the TGT schools pack and have just received three copies, which I’ll be taking to my safeguarding update training in October and sharing with colleagues in other schools.

We need to be talking about this in schools. We need to be properly informed about exemptions under the Equality Act, so that all children are treated equally, are encouraged to be their own person and to express their personalities however they want to, without being told they must therefore be the opposite sex.

R0wantrees · 04/09/2018 09:24

Dr Polly Carmichael (GIDS Tavistock NHS lead) position as described in James Kirkup Spectator article: 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
May 2018
(extract)
"In 2009/10, the GIDS had 97 children referred, of whom 40 were listed as “assigned female at birth.” In 2016/17, the GIDS had 2016 children referred, of whom 1400 were assigned female at birth. The total caseload for the service rose 2,078 per cent in seven years. The number of assigned females being referred rose 3,500 per cent in seven years. Why have the numbers risen in this way? Is there a clear and undisputed explanation, which would render Lord Tebbit’s suggested research into causation redundant?

This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion." (continues)

The lecture given by Dr Carmichael which is referenced can be heard here:
soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids." (continues)

Allsorts school toolkit is closely linked with and promoted by Mermaids

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Datun · 03/09/2018 23:53

Or are you suggesting that it's OK to produce a school pack called "Supporting gender diverse and trans-identified students in schools", with first person accounts of only desisters and detransitioners? Because that's self-evident bias/axe, Datun.

I'm not 'suggesting' anything, I'm telling you that Stephanie and her sister are genuinely caring, gentle women.

They know gender dysphoria exists. Stephanie has been at the coalface, spending time assessing the stories of innumerable young women. She has said that she has yet to see a girl transition who wasn't either a lesbian, autistic or have suffered from some kind of sexual or violent trauma.

So, to her, deconstructing and analysing transition is very important. Hence the detransitioners.

It's some time since I read her schools pack. But from memory it's a guide on how to support, in practical terms, transgirls and boys in school at the same time as boys and girls. Whilst maintaining that gender nonconformity is not the same as trans and to be careful not to mistake one for the other.

She, like all gender critical women, sees quite plainly that the trans ideology celebrates gender stereotypes. When it should be deconstructing them as harmful, particularly to girls.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 22:30

Cool. It's bad that they pulled the news item though - and replaced it with a letter to be careful about the veracity of studies. Hmm

12th - any comment on this post of mine?

The teacher's case study shows that the young trans people were 100% affirmed in her school. To the point that a biological female was allowed, on request, into a talk for boys, on testicular cancer, which clearly left the other boys uncomfortable.

This is the reality we have to face up to. Boys do not necessarily want to talk about their testicles in front of girls - who have no testicles, regardless of how they identify.

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 22:10

@ToeToToe. No, the news release was pulled, not the study. Brown couldn't pull the study because they aren't the publisher of the study.

OldCrone · 03/09/2018 21:57

The Littman paper is still there, but the university removed a news item about it on their site.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 21:49

It was pulled.

^Brown statement, community letter on gender dysphoria study
August 27, 2018 Media contact: News Staff 401-863-2476
Following the decision to remove a news article on "rapid-onset gender dysphoria," the University issued the following statement, and the School of Public Health dean wrote to Brown's public health community.^

Source: news.brown.edu/articles/2018/08/gender

There's a petition to re-instate: www.ipetitions.com/petition/brown-university-and-plos-one-defend-academic

If it has been re-instated, I'm thrilled.

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 21:34

It's the Littman study, isn't that the ROGD study you're saying has been pulled?

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 21:25

ToeToToe You are most welcome Smile

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 21:21

12th - I don't know what your link is, I don't click on links posted by obvious TAs. If you want to put in words what you linked to, I'll read it.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 21:20

Thank you Jacky - I saw a lot of his stuff on twitter, but never got round to following him.

He's been treated appallingly, and it's all down to the trans-rights activists infiltrating academia.

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 21:12

12thGuelph The source you reference is a more recent publication by Lisa Littman in the USA.

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 21:10

Toe to Toe The person you refer to is James Caspian, a counsellor. Bath Spa University declined his research proposal into detransitioned people on the grounds that it could reflect badly on the university:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41384473

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 21:09

Nope, it's right here: journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 21:03

*trans people's stories.

Autocorrect.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 21:02

In fact there is a well known academic, whose name always escapes me, who has been de-funded from academic study of detransitioning. Completely. Despite upwards of 80% of trans teens desisting.

A study of ROGD has also been pulled because transactivists kicked up such a fuss.

It is not ran people's stories which are being suppressed.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 20:58

Do Mermaids talk about detransitioned people? I think not.

The teacher's case study shows that the young trans people were 100% affirmed in her school. To the point that a biological female was allowed, on request, into a talk for boys, on testicular cancer, which clearly left the other boys uncomfortable.

This is the reality we have to face up to. Boys do not necessarily want to talk about their testicles in front of girls - who have no testicles, regardless of how they identify.

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 20:55

The authors of the TransgenderTrend guidance for schools are not allowed to ask for such material .. no-one is.

Do you have any understanding of any of this at all?

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 20:44

Are you suggesting that no transgender person would willingly supply TT with a first person account?

Or are you suggesting that it's OK to produce a school pack called "Supporting gender diverse and trans-identified students in schools", with first person accounts of only desisters and detransitioners? Because that's self-evident bias/axe, Datun.

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 20:33

A transitioned person has to specify who can know they are transitioning / have transitioned. No-one could collect a first person account without a transitioning / transitioned person agreeing to and supplying it.

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 20:27

They're anonymised first person accounts, Jacky.

JackyHolyoake · 03/09/2018 20:16

12thGuelph " why aren't there any case studies of transgender people?

Simply because transitioned people cannot be identified to others [it would be a breach of confidentiality].

12thGuelph · 03/09/2018 19:57

@Datun In that case I'd advise them, when picking the first person accounts from among their detransitioners, not to pick only the ones who went on to become hammy journalists.

If there 'is nothing anti trans in this school pack" and it "takes the rights of both trans-identified pupils and female pupils into account", why aren't there any case studies of transgender people?

Datun · 03/09/2018 19:44

ToeToToe

Anyone who has ever met Stephanie or Helen knows that authenticity run through them like a stick of rock.

Anyone with less of an axe to grind, you couldn't find.

ToeToToe · 03/09/2018 19:42

*and the crowdfunder was re-instated.

Personally, I'm more concerned at state schools PAYING for Allsorts to come and try and brainwash children in gender/queer identity theory.

This is a travesty - that the vast majority of parents DO NOT WANT. Children being told they 'can choose a sex' and 'take tablets to change their sex' - both of these are untrue. Both of these have been reported by ordinary parents - based on what their own children have told them.

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