Reading Pride

Lastly 404, I want to say that I hope you find peace in your body and enjoy Pride.

I'd like to explain what I meant above. I feel that looking to women to partake in your false belief that you are a women in order to validate you is expecting them to lie. I will be polite, kind to anyone I meet up to the point they are impolite to me. And up to the point that they claim that their belief means they get the hard-fought rights of women.

Gender no-conformity (wishing to adopt the stereotypical clothing behaviour, clothing, jobs etc of the opposite sex) is completely understandable - many women do it. Because they don't believe those stereotypes have anything to do with them as individuals.

meaning that they'd be more likely to recognise that I'm a woman

They won't see any such thing. That's the whole crux of the problem. But it's absolutely understandable and right that you'd want to wear what makes you feel comfortable.

Yes, I do. I entirely get that womanhood isn't defined by clothing (and neither is manhood, for that matter).
I recognise that female-ish was likely the wrong word to use, I just wasn't sure what the write one was. Androgyny, but attempting to appear feminine?

I appreciate you replying to me, so please take this as a genuine question rather than an attack, I think we have a good back and forth here.

Do you appreciate why a lot of what you’ve said re presenting as a female-ish is really quite offensive to women?
It seems like you get an aspect of it, which is great but equally you disregard it which many of us consider damaging.

HavingALittleBabyToolshed

By that, I mean that I'm not going to be wearing a dress or skirt. I'm going to try to look reasonably androgynous. I fully recognise that thinking clothing makes a person a woman or a man (non-binary gender identities are kinda excluded from this one) is very wrong, however, most people you meet on the street will associate dresses with womanhood, meaning that they'd be more likely to recognise that I'm a woman.
Because my body appears stereotypically manly, I might use clothes to distract both myself and other people from that. At some point, I'll finally go out and buy some half-decent dresses. I've tried one on, it was extremely comfortable, but I'm not swimming in money. When I've been on hormone therapy for a while and I'm more comfortable in my own body, I might go back to my current 'butch lesbian with bad hair' look. I think this might be the reason a lot of transgender women try to look ultra-feminine, if we can even define feminine.

Thanks for the reply 404

What does intending to present female-ish mean in this context?

404NameNotFound

So you’re heterosexual then.

How are you intending to present “female-ish”? Jeans, t-shirt, Doc Martens but a dash of lippy? I’m assuming there’s a spectrum of presentation:

Female
Female-ish
Male-ish
Male?

HavingALittleBabyToolshed

I am a trans lesbian, as in I was assigned male at birth, and am transitioning to female. I have not yet begun medical transition, though I have two medical appointments related to my transgender identity in the next few days.

I thought I was pansexual for a while, and I think that this was me being confused about my gender identity. I really, really tried to like men. I just didn't.

I am out to my family and friends, but have not yet transitioned socially in public, though I am intending to present female-ish at Reading Pride tomorrow. And no, I don't use the women's bathrooms yet.

Pride is full of straight people so no, it hasn't been a gay thing for years. We're in a "post-gay" world whether we like it or not. (No dodgy local gay pubs, everyone's on hookup apps or moved to the big city.) Everyone, from straight allies, to students with blue hair, to trades unionists and local emergency services staff, shows up wearing rainbow coloured stuff. It's very nice of them to do so.
Actual gays and actual lesbians exist in pockets of renegades online. A bit like the personals in gay papers back in the day. A trip to a dodgy pub to check the listings in a free paper full of rent boy ads. Thrilling times.
I imagine the secret GC parties that will start being held will be quite fun, I hope I'm not too old to attend by then...

Was Pride not originally an LGB event?

I cant think of a better place to be saying that lesbians are same sex attracted.

Males can not be lesbians, and lesbians arent attracted to males.

That is my understanding as a straight woman, am I wrong?

404NameNotFound

Not to be goady, I am genuinely interested. I’m sure you can appreciate language is rapidly changing when it comes to these kinds of topics. What do you mean by “trans lesbian”? Have you transitioned to another sexuality or are you a trans person who indentifies a lesbian?

jasminemaya I'm going to Reading Pride tomorrow. It'll be my first Pride as a trans lesbian. Thank you for standing up for me and the other trans people who just want to be themselves and enjoy Pride.

Dhal best of luck to your friend. The difference between someone like that and the aggressive trans rights activists who try to shut this board down is that I doubt your friend feels entitled to sex with any man, and I doubt she'd scream at them for being bigoted if they ruled her out based on her trans status. Like most people I'm guessing she'd be disappointed, upset and maybe a little embarrassed, as we all are when we get knocked back by someone we fancy.
These activists are telling young lesbian girls they are bigoted if they rule out trans women, and that trans women now include straight men who cross-dress. It's a complete mess.

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap, hotrocker and everlasting, thank you.
OP, just go and if something comes up, either challenge it there or discuss it when you get home. Reading Pride is fairly small scale, it's more about dance music and a slush puppy than the bigger, more historical Prides. I'd hire the disused Reading Gaol for an after-party, personally. It's what Oscar would have wanted.

The weird thing for me now I think about it is I have friend who used to be, let's say, Andrew, but now, after years of successful surgery, is Annie. This person no longer has a penis. I have only ever known this person as Annie, who volunteered their stirt, I never asked. Is Annie a man or a woman?
They have had a horrible time getting to the (good) place they are today.

Annie professes to being sexually attracted to men. But we have spoken about whether this means her natural sexuality is homosexual, or straight. She says she's straight.

Because she's a woman.

I'm fond of this friend, but really can't get my head around it all.

I can't go (family wedding) but as a woman and as a bisexual I would feel tempted to do something. Nice to know there are like-minded women in my area though!

My brain is battered. No wonder (female born) lesbians are pissed off.
I'm no even sure why I put (female born) because surely if a person was born with a will (IE a man) then he can't possibly be a lesbian.
Christ on a bike
I'm supposed to be taking my kids to pride tomorrow too. All their aunties are lesbians. They'd be horrified at the thought of having a sexual relationship with a willy-born person.

In fact, isn't that some sort of misrepresentation? I mean, I'm a heterosexual female, who is not remotely sexually attracted to women (I love women, but not in a gay way!) And I think I'd be a bit freaked out if I found myself in a sexy situation with someone who wasn't really a man but had come across as one, and didn't tell me they weren't.
Oh god what a mess!

There's that scene in trainspotting where begbie gets off with a 'bird' then finds out she's a he, then goes batshit....

I’m somewhat gobsmacked at what is happening in Philosophy, Everlasting. I just cannot comprehend how someone like McKinnon could have been employed by a university. They seem really very dim, unwilling to debate or engage with others in the field, and grossly unprofessional. How on earth did they get a job, at a time when the job market is so fiercely competitive?

More or less.

I'm sorry but I'm really confused right now...so a person born with a willy but wants to be female and not then heterosexual (IE, have a sexual relationship with a man) is a lesbian? So that person was actually heterosexual all along? Sorry if I'm being (genuinely) dim.

And block em on twitter

Life to short to have to engag3 with total twats

Jeeps everlasting. I just read well skimmed that paper
Just tell them I dunno to get real lifes.

Seems like they stuck in some sort of unreal life’s

Infact a quick fuck off would probs sort them out

Hotrocker - thank you for your insightful and moving post