Reading Pride

It's absolutely fucking mental and ridiculous. For anyone to argue that a lesbian is transphobic for not wanting to get it on with a trans woman because they pass well, it's nuts.

YY. It must be so hard to see this lesbian erasing shit all the time it's the same tactic this male supremacy movement uses against women everywhere. Cuckoos in the nest. Get in and make demands and emotionally blackmail. But I know it started with lesbians.

It’s attempting to take homophobia and weaponise it against us, to separate out the good lesbians from the bad lesbians so all the bad lesbians can be excluded or scared off, then hey presto, all the lesbians at pride are the good, inclusive, nice type > all lesbians are nice and inclusive, apart from you.

I’ve been forced into a situation where I’ve had to defend myself because I’ve tried to like members of the opposite sex, but couldn’t. It’s actually quite common.

Yes that's what I understood from gay and lesbian friends. Was quite jarring to see a straight male person say that.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a heterosexual person apologise for the fact that they’ve tried to be attracted to members of their own sex, but couldn’t.
I’ve been forced into a situation where I’ve had to defend myself because I’ve tried to like members of the opposite sex, but couldn’t. It’s actually quite common.
So much trying to appropriate experience here.

I thought I was pansexual for a while, and I think that this was me being confused about my gender identity. I really, really tried to like men. I just didn't

I'm confused about this bit. Why did you feel the need to "try to like men"? Why not just be a straight male who plays with your appearance and expresses your personality however you want to?

Saying that you would never, ever be attracted to a transgender person is transphobic, because you wouldn't necessarily know who was trans and who wasn't. Some of us pass, and saying that 'you can always tell' reeks of confirmation bias.

I can't possibly comment on all trans and I think that those who trans very young might pass a whole lot better but I don't know of any so it is hard to say, but I can see why that might be possible.

However, of those transwomen I know in real life, I'm sorry but physically they seem like men to me. I know one person, personally who is pretty high profile, not as high as India but well known enough to be on radio and tv and she is simply obviously born male, even though she has had the full op, but she is told day in day out how fabulous she looks, so probably has internalised that plus she has always the most amazing amount of self confidence.The truth is people think she does a good job st putting herself together but is still obviously trans. I knew this person before and after and they transed late, over age 40. They are so steeped in male privilege they will never, ever know what the female experience is and that privilege seems to mean for this person that they are unable to put it to one side and accept they even have it.

Lastly, even if a transwomen passed amazingly well how can you possibly argue that being revolted by the discovery of a penis is transphobic?

Yes, if a straight man says he is only attracted to women that is homophobia because he might see a man with long hair from behind and think he's a woman and be attracted, so you can't say you're never attracted to men because you don't know, do you?

And no, most trans people don't "pass" with any degree of scrutiny. Unless they transitioned very young.

Wear whatever you want that makes you feel comfortable.
Accept that people see what they see.
A lesbian is a female homosexual. It shouldn't be considered an edgy or dangerous thing to say nowadays.
People who agree with the above no longer attend pride and similar events because not only do they not feel welcome, they feel very unsafe.
It's been stated enough times.

It isn't GLBT.

Why do you say GLBT? Because I can never remember which way round is usual.

404
You are not a lesbian. Men cannot be lesbians. Lesbians are not attracted to males, so stay away from lesbians.
I wish I had a quid for every bloke who’s tried to pick me up by telling me he’s a lesbian. You are no different.

I'm fairly sure that most of the people on here know perfectly well that they're misrepresenring that fact with relation to transgender people.

"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

Why do you say GLBT? Isn't the generally accepted acronym LGBT? PS the people who protested at various "Prides" and "Dyke Marches" around the world this year (not just London) were lesbians. Why shouldn't they get to have a say?

I would never want anybody to have to feel entitled to sleep with anybody, and I'm fairly sure that most of the people on here know perfectly well that they're misrepresenring that fact with relation to transgender people. Saying you don't want to sleep with a particular person is your right, and I shall fight to defend it. Saying that you would never, ever be attracted to a transgender person is transphobic, because you wouldn't necessarily know who was trans and who wasn't. Some of us pass, and saying that 'you can always tell' reeks of confirmation bias.

I think a GBLT pride event is for GBLT people and those that support them. If you don't like some of the GBLT, it's not for you.

''Look good, be nice, roll over when told'' is not feminism.

I would just go and observe with as open a mind as you can.

Re that sign that jasmine was promoting, I believe that 'my' feminism ( it's not a possession or an accessory) 'includes' women, men and trans people. What it does inevitably do is make me very aware of what it means to be biologically female or male and what my culture requires of me and otgers because of that. If all 'my feminism' requires me to do is say 'HIIIIIIIII!!! YOU LOOK UH-MAZING BABES! LOVE YOOOOOOOUUU' to men and women then sure i can do that, but i'm not seeing the feminist analysis in that tbh.

Why do you hate to say it? Shouldn't you be proud of being part of a male sexual rights movement that bullies female homosexuals?
By calling yourself a lesbian you show no respect for women. Shame on you.

Yes. They are kind to you to your face. Women are socialised to be kind even to ther detriment. And up to the point that you were to get upset and call them bigoted for not wanting to sleep with you. I am sure you wouldn't do that though.

I hate to say it, but all of the lesbians standing with banners at the front of almost every single UK Pride since Pride in London was hijacked seem to be absolutely fine with transgender lesbians.

Males are neither women nor lesbians. A woman is female and a lesbian is a female person attracted only to other members of the female sex.

Have a great day out at Pride. But please try to have some consideration for how offensive it is to many lesbians for males to affect this description. Find a better word.

404, tis is a genuine question, I have no agenda other than my own numpty was...you were born male, but now want to be female, but identify as a lesbian. Doesn't that make you heterosexual? You can't be a lesbian with a penis, surely? Isn't that offensive to lesbians! I mean, if you got into some sexy time with a lesbian, wouldn't she be horrifed to discover a penis? Sorry, I'm truly baffled by it all.