'Well-behaved' girls 'socialising' 'challenging' boys at primary school

one of them would get his penis out under the table and pretend to drop something causing me to look

I said before that my experience is that sitting older children around tables facilitates bullying, because teachers cannot see what's happening. I never imagined this happening, though! But now that you've said it, I'm not surprised. We know that girls endure huge amounts of sexualised harassment at school. Horrified.

No wonder so many children have a bad experience of school, when it's impossible for them to feel safe even inside the classroom. Older children should be seated at desks facing the front.

And certainly there is less drama, on the whole, with boys. Tho their feuds can be fierce, more often than not they get over it quicker.
That has not been my experience.
Much more drama on the whole with boys and carrying grudges for effing decades because they assumed a laughing girl was laughing at them or sometimes major falling outs over an effing game.

This happened to me when I was 12. I loved English. It was my favourite subject. There were more boys than girls in our class so rather than change the tables, I was the one girl that was chosen to sit with 4 boys. The teacher said she chose me because I was confident and would be a good influence on them. I was 12 and as silly as any boy. Every bit of confidence I had diminished that year. They poked fun at my changing body calling me fat, one of them would get his penis out under the table and pretend to drop something causing me to look. I was sorted into the bottom set the next year. Luckily, I had a lovely elderly male teacher who insisted I was sorted into the top set the year after.

Can't fault you for that. I do that a lot. 😂

Which is why I thought what you had written was nonsense. I mean, it would have been nonsense if that's what you'd said... but you hadn't.
That'll teach me to read and multitask. It's a way to do 2 things badly.

Lol, no worries, figured you had. Did need a bit of reading I must admit lol. Teach me to try be clever ha ha

Yep. And, on the whole tho it does happen, boys tend not to drag either all their friends into it or the whole year group! It does happen, but usually on a lesser scale. Having said that one year almost the entire yr 9 boys jumped a few yr 10s! Nice yr 10s too. But generally speaking......

Ucantarguewistupid
And I totally and utterly misread your post earlier. Sorry about that.

Giles I know you wouldn't... but some do. And then people wonder why there is a phrase called 'those parents.

Ucantarguewistupid
I agree with you on that one. An issue between two male students tends to fire up and die down quickly (usually with the threat of a fight that usually doesn't happen because neither of them at idiots, or it's a mild skirmish).
Girl falling outs tend to be more ongoing, gossip, he said she said, my underhand and done socially.

We also tend not to get requests to move boys away from each other or requests to move classes from boys due to friendship issues. Class move requests due to failings out are usually from girls.
(Drawing on general trends here, not saying it's all boys or all girls because that would be silly)

Chemistry between kids can be a factor but this must be taken into account for all students. There are better & fairer ways of managing it than putting loudest with quietest. Its managing the 'chemistry' of the class as a whole thatis the real skill and what takes time and effort that either becomes skill or were lucky enough to have had an inherent skill.

Er maisypops - that is what I said! Girls in my experience when they decide to be bad they can be more bad ass than any boy. I guess I wasnt clear

Couldn't it partly be because putting two volatile kids next to each other is a bad idea?

And certainly there is less drama, on the whole, with boys. Tho their feuds can be fierce, more often than not they get over it quicker.

Am only talking about my experience. And as I noted, yes girls can be disruptive and they can be way worse than boys. But still, on the whole, in my experience, boys take the lead overall. Boys can also be the best charmers tho and can often end up getting more slack than girls.

maisy

Don't worry maisy I would never do that 😆 it's my Dds job to learn to cope with general back ground noise . And she sure as hell needs to focus on her own work if she's noticing what some kid is doing the other side of the room then she's not doing that.

Obviously I don't know the details about all the kids my Dds classes its not my bisiness but I do know that alot if things have become so normal to them and it's lovely it really is , just how kids, when exposed to such diversity so young don't bat an eyelid at so many things.

But as you say we do need to be careful that tolerance stops being something that means accepting kids for who they are and all accompanied quirks and becomes a code for putting up with any shit any kid throws at you.

Fwiw as the few cases i know of, of children in their classes that do have a
AN of some kind, they are NOT the kids I hear about.

I have always said to both my Dds that they don't have to be everyone's best friend. They don't have to like people and that's ok. What's not ok is actively being unkind and nasty back. And that deliberately winding kids up makes you as bad if not worse.

But neither one of my Dds would have the confidence to speak up. The one time dd1 did she was made to regret it.

sadly it is the boys who take the lead in disruptiveness.

I disagree with that.
The type of disruptive behaviour might be different but girls can be just as disruptive in class.
There IS a strong belief that girls are well behaved in general and my two boys have felt it a lot.
Think the whole boys in the class been punished and none of the girls when some boys hadn’t been involved but some girls were very much and got away with it.
Or the constants comment from teachers that ‘yet again it’s the girls that are sat nicely’ when it’s actually not the case.
It doesn’t help boys to behave when the preconceived idea is that they will be naughty anyway. Where is the incentive to behave well there??

Actually the biggest disruptive influence in DD1's class who people really try to avoid their child being continually partnered with is a girl. And yes, I've requested that my daughter's not seated next to her more than is absolutely essential (and the teacher would be a fool if they did so because it's so screamingly obviously Not A Good Combination and likely to have induced a teacher migraine by about 9.05 am). There's general disruptive behaviour and bothering everyone else constantly anyway - plus in combination with DD1 the pair of them just amplify the worst behaviour they both can get up to (DD1's not a bad kid - just got a bit of a tweenage attitude on her far far too early and needs very firm boundaries) and it goes to pot very quickly.

It took a bloody age to sort out classes for September and it's as a result of this one child and the sheer number of parents who want their kids kept away from them. (There are also massive friendship issues get involved and bullying that goes on as well)

Oh, this resonates with me. There were two boys with autism in DD’s Year 1 class. Both boys require 1-1 supervision at lunchtime as well as during the day. But there’s only one TA to supervise them at lunch, so one is minded by my DD in the hall until it’s his turn to go outside with the TA.

I didn’t mind particularly - that is, until the boy assaulted her twice in one afternoon.

That was one of three or four occasions last year where a teacher took me aside to explain that DD had been hurt by one of those boys at lunchtime. There’s obviously a big gap in supervision during those times.

If it happens one more time I’m going to be so pissed off. Not sure what I can do about it though.

giles
I agree. There is a time and a place for tolerant. I've taught classes where (due to SEND) a child has had meltdowns or thrown a stimming toy in exasperation or made noises and the students are so genuinely tolerant, ignore and remain focused. (Child is removed if it's a big issue by the way).
I tend to find students are very empathetic and understanding in those situations.

They shouldn't be expected to tolerate nastiness, people getting in their space, being unkind, being loud, messing around etc.

No one's really complained about bog standard classroom noise.
Oh you'd be surprised. In schools we get complaints about anything and everything. (Jokes on here by teachers aren't exaggerating. Some of them are hilarious. My personal favourite was a parent complaining at, and then about, me because I had failed to prevent a child annoying their child in art. I am the other side of site from our art rooms. I am not an art teacher. Apparently the child is annoying and it's ruining their child's enjoyment of art and killing their creativity which home have worked hard to nurture. As form tutor it is apparently my job to have words with a colleague and ensure that their child is sat next to other nice girls who enjoy art).

I was one of the well behaved and clever girls made to sit with disruptive boys. It made my school days miserable and I resent it to this day. If the teacher couldn’t manage their behaviour, how the hell was I supposed to?

Yes in a normal situation you'd say the child who has self control and shows kindness in public is doing well. Sadly this teacher practice shows it up as a weakness. That's the lesson my son has taken from it.

My son has now taken to verbally teasing this girl. In primary she frequently physically poked him, went through the entire pencil case by the sounds of it, knocked his elbow, then blamed him for upsetting her. Now as he's "matured" it seems they are in a he teases she hits cycle. He's ok with it because hes not just a victim. Go figure, he's not cut out to be a diplomat.

Not all disruption is physically targeting other students but any parent who thinks their child should be exempt from sitting near a child who happens to need a redirect is being unreasonable

I don't really know anyone. Myself included who would really be worried about a bit of back ground noise. That's life we have to learn to block that out teachers have to talk to kids. Kids sometimes need to quickly speak to eachother. Unless they are having a full on shouting match I certainly wouldn't be worried.

It's the constant deliberate prevention of doing work that I have had a problem with in the past. Obstructing the board on purpose manspreading everywhere so we had no space to put her stuff and no where under the table to even put her feet.

I wish the word tolerance wouldn't he bandied about so much tbh. No one's really complained about bog standard classroom noise.

A child for instance who couldn't be trusted not to talk to their best friend and be distracted the whole lesson would obviously need an alternate seat perhaps next to someone who they don't not get on with but who they wouldn't talk to would make sense. It would be problem however if that child then just yelled across the room at the friend our lean across the desk partners space all the time trying to get their attention and preventing that child amd more from working at all.

How can one child be expected to ignore it no matter what, yet the other child cant be expected to ignore their friend....

I think kids actually put up with a hell of alot. Much more than adults ever would. Adults would never put up with someone swearing at them, laughing at them, invading their space or threatening you or poming you all day Yet we call kids who don't put up with it intolerant. Just no.

No boy has beat the worst behaved girl for title of worst behaved!
Nonsense.
Some cohorts I've known the most notorious student was a girl.

're boys and girls, like it or not majority of well behaved are the girls. That said the worst can be girls. No boy has beat the worst behaved girl for title of worst behaved! But numbers wise, while good, quiet boys exist, sadly it is the boys who take the lead in disruptiveness. Well done to your boys for doing so well.

Girls do better in single sex schools; boys do better in mixed schools