Is gender 100% bullshit? Or not

gendercritter

You said you believe violence is a natural behaviour in men. I agree with you. I also am trying to understand the reason it exists. Some of the answer may lie with actually imagining a world without violence and wondering if we would have survived? would we have survived until now without humans (men) not prepared to be violent?

You can even view this at your micro level when a burglar enters your house...what do you need? Someone to be violent? Well, who is prepared to do that?

There has been a requirement for violence and almost all species who are currently in existence have a form of violent behaviour (not always by the male)

So men have biological ‘gender’ behaviour but not women?

No. That's not what I said. Violence is pretty different from 'neuroticism'

Moon cup lots of our behaviour around birth are actually hormone driven. Rushes of oxytocin and prolactin surge through the female body to make us bond and make breast milk

Perhaps we could be more careful/precise with language? I think the phrase gendered behaviour can mean innate gender ( driven by genes we don't understand or more likely just don't exist ) , sex driven gender (characteristics affected by the sex related genes) , and learned gender.

So men learn a gender behaviour of violence, that is partially enabled by the sex driven difference of physical size and probably nothing more innate than female violence but it is possible that some genes lead to specific hormones that do support violence.

personally I would say that the obvious women caring for their own babies is not a gender thing, but a sex thing. It's part of reproduction . So knocking gender is not devaluing the role of the mother

It is possible to believe that gender is rubbish at the same time say that sex is significant and should not be ignored.

There is no innate or biological gender. Gender is purely society's expectations based on our biology. We have biological differences

How do you know this?

There is no innate or biological gender. Gender is purely society's expectations based on our biology. We have biological differences.

gendercritter

So men have biological ‘gender’ behaviour but not women?

I agree that male violence must be controlled, indeed we do! A large proportion of laws are there simply to account for this ‘gendered’ behaviour.

But there’s the thing, we are more similar than we are different as we are the same species, however there are certain behaviours that are more common in females and then the same for men.

I do understand the issue in acknowledging this as it seems we have systematically devalued female behaviour, however denying the reality doesn’t progress anything for women.

Do you believe that men are more violent than women?

Yes, I guess I do. I'm not sure! I have no idea at all if that is inherent and relates to their biology (I think so in all honesty) or if it's more to do with nurture. I wonder if it's possible to ever unpack it fully. I am not an expert.

I do think, however, that society could make some massive changes and very firmly teach boys and men that violence is not ok. I think violence against women would then drop significantly over the generations. I think things would still be unequal but not as much as now. There are no real consequences for men being violent now.

www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/

So what about the situation in Scandinavia...the least inequality in the world yet females outnumber men significantly in caring / people industries and men massively outnumber women in engineering / stem ?

It seems the more freedom people get, the more ‘gender roles’ are reinforced

Do you think that if we could remove all gender reinforcement and socilisation from society, men and woman would behave in much the same way and there would be no defined differences between men and women other than sex/biological differences.

I think they could indeed behave much the same way yes.

But you are talking about ridding the world of misogyny which is impossible.

And there will still be greed and injustice to deal with, I don't think we could rid the world of that.

gendercritter

Do you believe that men are more violent than women?

@Fairenuff

Do you think that if we could remove all gender reinforcement and socilisation from society, men and woman would behave in much the same way and there would be no defined differences between men and women other than sex/biological differences.

I think the grey area inbetween the genders would be bigger and more people would fall into it. But I think we would still observe some general differences in behavior between the two sexs.

Oh yes I agree gendered behaviour exists, I'm not saying it doesn't. Quite the opposite in fact. But I do think the world would be a better place without it and people could just be people rather than being confined to current societal gender norms.

It isn't bullshit ìn my opinion. It is a real phenomenon. Most people I meet in day to day life are highly gendered and most parents I know are adhering to gender related expectations to a greater or lesser extent as they raise their children. It is possible to make generalisations about male and female behaviours but all such generalisations serve to reinforce gender norms and are therefore sometimes unhelpful (but sometimes necessary)

Is gender 100% bullshit?

Yes, I think so. We could live just fine without it people having to present or behave a certain way just to reflect their sex.

*according to gender stereotypes that should have said in my post above.

Sex is a very simple biological fact which is recognised worldwide, has been throughout time and across all cultures. On the whole it is easy to determine the sex of a child at birth.

Gender is a social construct which many women reject.

Even in around 1995 there was a doctor writing how neuroticism is a female trait and the bigger your hips the more neurotic you were likely to be and the lower pain threshold you might have. hmm

Ha. Why do I read that as 'the bigger your hips, the less I'm going to listen to your issues and deal with them, including pain managment'

I defer to Titania's judgement on this matter

It is connected specifically to a diagnosis of hysteria.

Sorry that should have said it was

Even in around 1995 there was a doctor writing how neuroticism is a female trait and the bigger your hips the more neurotic you were likely to be and the lower pain threshold you might have.

Neuroticism in psychology on the Big 5 is not what you describe

I am guessing that was aimed at my comment about the history of neuroticism?

I appreciate that neuroticism as part of the Big 5 is no longer linked specifically to one's womb/genitals/menstruation but I think psychologists should be very aware of the origins of it as a label. It hasn't emerged from nowhere out of the ether. It is very much rooted in misogyny. It is connected specifically to a diagnosis of hysteria.

And anyway - looking at it in the context of the Big 5, surely it is still impossible to say it is an inherent character trait more common in females as opposed to something which emerges in someone because of society. Women are more likely to score highly as neurotic, right? Women are more likely to be victims of sexual assault/domestic violence etc. etc. Take those completely out of society before you judge whether women are just inherently neurotic, please.

What do you mean? You can observe for yourself how people treat each other according to gender. I can see it with my own eyes.

Who ever says 'that's a pretty top' to a little boy. No one.

But little girls get this message over and over as they grow up.

OP is asking the difference between sex and gender.