Caroline Lucas on Aimee Challoner in the Guardian

WPUK Statement:
WPUK Meeting with Green Party
"We are astonished by the reaction to Caroline Lucas tweeting that she is arranging a meeting with Woman’s Place UK to hear the concerns of women in relation to proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

In these reactions, we have, once again, been misrepresented as a ‘far-right’ ‘Transphobic’ ‘hate-group’ with which no self-respecting politician should engage. Nothing could be farther from the truth." (continues)
womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-meeting-with-green-party/

Honestly. This cult of experts and deferring to their knowledge and clinical experience. Where will it all end. What we need are unverified anecdotes presented in an emotion-tugging manne

An awful lot of “knowledge and clinical experience” is precisely “unverified anecdotes”. The reason we need good, blinded, controlled trials of medical interventions is because doctors are only seeing the cases in front of them and are prone to making assumptions. Wakefield was a crook, which didn’t help, but there is plenty of stuff in the medical literature which amounts to “I saw half a dozen patients, did a thing, miracle”. Several surgical scandals, particularly in things like hip replacement, come from this; experienced, senior surgeons who thought they had found a magic bullet, when in fact they had just got lucky or hadn’t done enough follow up. The “clinical experience” of one doctor is just anecdote until it’s properly analysed and subjected to a proper study, and we should be very wary of “my experience says...” from consultants when it’s at variance with broader knowledge. At best, it’s a starting point for better studies.

It seems clear to me, with just a cursory search, that Paul isn't trans but a trans ally.

Yes, his statement makes that clear:
(extract)
"I am a Cisgender Gay Male ally of the trans+ community, and to be an ally sometimes means that I have to go out of my way to leave my comfort zone to learn, sometimes it’s just talking, or standing beside a friend to lend my presence or my cis-white-maleness to their argument or protest (as we live in a skewed society that will add value to something that I as a cis-white-male visibly and audibly support, I wish it wasn’t like that but it is and I annoyingly can’t fix it however much I try, so if I have an advantage my trans+ family don’t I will do everything I can to use it to support them, and advocate for them in spaces that they can’t get into) or walking them home because it is late and the world can be a horrible place.

Tonight being an ally meant I had to watch this vile venom on TV, on the BBC a channel I pay £12.12 a month for the pleasure of watching. It was awful, I won’t go into the arguments here, there was no balance to it, it was biased towards the denial of trans+ children, it also scare mongered to a stupid degree the idea that once a child said they were trans a vampiric group of clinicians, therapists and trans activists would descend and never let the child change their mind, and force them to take puberty blockers, then hormones and make them have surgery, all of which couldn’t be further from the truth. This couldn’t be further from the truth young trans people I know have had to fight tooth and nail to prove their transness to get anything.

I came away from this TV show angry, appalled, outraged and deeply concerned for my trans+ family who I knew would be feeling this worse than me as aside from some crossfire regarding questionable statistics around young males who initially presented as trans allegedly turned out to be gay instead it wasn’t an attack on my identity, it was a full broadside to my trans+ family, thankfully they seem to be holding up ok, but as I type calls to trans charities and helplines have increased, some of my more prominent trans friends are dealing with an increased volume of social media abuse all for the crime of proudly owning who they are as trans"

Placemats

I'm not sure what was happening that link to Paul Desson-Baxter's statment (Chair of Coventry Pride)

Its on the website:

www.coventrypride.org.uk/2017/01/13/transgender-kids-who-knows-best-an-allys-response/

same with my local 'woman's officer', Lily Maddigan. What is it with these charmless, verbally abusive youths? Corbyn seems equally in thrall to him, sadly...

The other thing that the GP keep trying to ignore, is this situation (with AC, DC and TC) would never have arisen if the conviction for animal cruelty had been deemed a bar to holding posts in the GP

One would have thought of all parties the Greens would be concerned about this.

The link between animal abuse and child abuse / phyisically abusive behaviour is well known.

I think the NSPCC have shown their true colours when it comes to safeguarding of children.

Obviously animals and pets come first.

This is Paul Desson-Baxter

uk.linkedin.com/in/paul-desson-baxter-7b4b0370

That last link is broken ROwan

It seems clear to me, with just a cursory search, that Paul isn't trans but a trans ally.

James Kirkup Spectator articles:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

By way of example ( there are many studies exploring the links)
NSPCC Executive Summary 2007:
'Animal abuse and child maltreatment'
www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets/documents/research-reports/animal-abuse-child-maltreatment-summary.pdf

arranfan

Honestly. This cult of experts and deferring to their knowledge and clinical experience. Where will it all end. What we need are unverified anecdotes presented in an emotion-tugging manner to panels and members of committees who don't have the time to do due diligence and prefer a woke narrative that leads to simple conclusions (no matter what the unintended consequences).

I'm no expert, but I sensed a teensy bit of sarcasm in that comment...

"Dr Az Hakeem is the top gender expert in the UK. He is a consultant psychiatrist and a visiting professor in Psychiatry & Applied Psychotherapy. He ran a specialist gender dysphoria service within the NHS for 12 years, to which patients were referred from all over the UK.

Honestly. This cult of experts and deferring to their knowledge and clinical experience. Where will it all end. What we need are unverified anecdotes presented in an emotion-tugging manner to panels and members of committees who don't have the time to do due diligence and prefer a woke narrative that leads to simple conclusions (no matter what the unintended consequences).

The other thing that the GP keep trying to ignore, is this situation (with AC, DC and TC) would never have arisen if the conviction for animal cruelty had been deemed a bar to holding posts in the GP . I'd expect any decent political party to decide that someone who had been convicted of the sort of stuff that DC (and TC?) have would not be eligible to stand as a party official or to seek public election as a party candidate. The GP of all parties should have been alarmed at this conviction and told the Challenor family that they were not welcome to share their politicla platform

from the publisher of the book referenced above:

"Dr Az Hakeem is the top gender expert in the UK. He is a consultant psychiatrist and a visiting professor in Psychiatry & Applied Psychotherapy. He ran a specialist gender dysphoria service within the NHS for 12 years, to which patients were referred from all over the UK. He now practises in the private sector at The Priory Hospital, Roehampton, and at Harley Street and continues to work and research in the field of gender dysphoria. He is a senior clinical lecturer at the University of New South Wales, Australia."

"Transgender has become a 'fashionable' topic but very few people understand much about it and it can be all too easy to make assumptions or believe misinformation put about on the internet. This book demystifies the subject and offers a straightforward guide to terminology, issues, hormones, surgery and much more. Aimed primarily at the families, friends and loved ones of people with gender dysphoria, it will also hold much interest for teachers, health workers and other professionals."
www.grahammawchristie.com/dr-az-hakeem.html

And when I queried it with my MP, she forwarded me the assertion from Caroline Dinedage that the existence of AGP was 'controversial'.

Dr Az Hakeem (Gender Specialist) describes and discusses AGP within the introductory chapters of the book, 'TRANS: Exploring Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria. A guide for everyone including professionals'
(published earlier this year)
www.amazon.co.uk/TRANS-Exploring-Gender-Identity-Dysphoria/dp/1911246496?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I've posted on the GP thread - AC seems to be doing a hell of a lot of "housekeeping" today wrt their online presence.

She was on Maria Miller's Committee. You would think that she had acquired some knowledge of the range of people presenting as transgender, rather than swallowing the dodgy assertions of the Trans lobby.

I know the thread has moved on Pam, but AGP was not mentioned once in the entire 98 page report from Maria Miller.

And when I queried it with my MP, she forwarded me the assertion from Caroline Dinedage that the existence of AGP was 'controversial'.

They were being told one thing, and one thing only.

The scandal is, they didn't bother to check.

January 2017 Coventry Pride Chairperson comments re BBC:
'Transgender Kids: Who knows best – An Ally’s Response.'
(article concludes)
"I came away from this TV show angry, appalled, outraged and deeply concerned for my trans+ family who I knew would be feeling this worse than me as aside from some crossfire regarding questionable statistics around young males who initially presented as trans allegedly turned out to be gay instead it wasn’t an attack on my identity, it was a full broadside to my trans+ family, thankfully they seem to be holding up ok, but as I type calls to trans charities and helplines have increased, some of my more prominent trans friends are dealing with an increased volume of social media abuse all for the crime of proudly owning who they are as trans. More insidiously this program followed an awful piece on

More insidiously this program followed an awful piece on Newsnight on the 11th and many articles and opinion pieces attacking trans individuals, trans charities and parents who support their trans kids. This all feeds into an “othering” of the trans community by the media and in society, in general. Many of my trans friends have been opposing this, within the Pride committee which I am chairperson of it is a running joke that I am like momma bear protecting her cubs there’s more truth than joke to that if you are a friend of mine or a part of my community you are mine and I am protective of you, if I have to put myself in harms way to keep you safe I will, the BBC just took a swipe at my family this will not stand, while as an ally it will never be appropriate for me to lead your fight, it is more than appropriate for me to use my voice to amplify yours and to walk with you side by side, to hold you up when you are tired, and that is what I will do.
In Solidarity
Paul Desson-Baxter
Coventry Pride."
www.coventrypride.org.uk/2017/01/13/transgender-kids-who-knows-best-an-allys-response/

I meant to add that I was volunteering in a Methodist Church Hall at that time. I'm not a member of any religion or religious organisation.

the police interview everyone living at the crime immediately (we know this is true from Aimee's own FB message to David in 2015)

I don't think that FB message was to David was it? The onset saying answer my texts, the police have been.

Where did we go wrong? What proceedures do we need to bring in at volunteer-led organisations to prevent this from happening again?

There are strict guidelines regarding volunteers now. However, having been just a periphery member of a local volunteer group for over a decade, there was one meeting in which all had to attend to discuss the Victoria Climbie report and safeguarding issues. The aunt had said she was having messages from God to harm her niece, Victoria, and had mentioned this to the Vicar of her local Methodist Church.

Jimmy Savile report:

www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-and-department-of-health-investigations-into-jimmy-savile

How many reports does this country need, at huge expense I might add. Coventry Pride clearly took swift action with regard to David Challenor and implemented, correctly, the guidelines regarding safeguarding issues.

www.coventrypride.org.uk/2018/08/28/a-statement-from-the-trustees-of-coventry-pride/

Of note Aimee Challenor is a trustee of Coventry Pride according to Stonewall

www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group.

Aimee is a trans equality campaigner from Coventry. She came out in 2014 aged 16 as she left school. She speaks openly about her experiences as a young transgender woman. She’s previously had articles in the Guardian and the Huffington Post, as well as other websites from around the world. She’s also a Trustee of Coventry Pride

If the independent investigator manages to pull together a timeline of what was known and when, it would clarify matters enormously for determining what actions might have been appropriate.

28th August 2018 Coventry Pride Statement:
"Mr [David] Challenor volunteered for the Charity in 2015 and 2016 he assisted with event set up and take down, and designing some posters and leaflets. The Trustees were made aware of criminal proceedings being taken against Mr Challenor in November 2016. A directive was issued to those responsible for volunteer recruitment that Mr Challenor was not to be accepted as a volunteer at the Charity’s events and if he attended public events organised by the Charity he was monitored by the trustees. "

31st August 2018 BBC article:
"His [DC] crimes came to light after the girl confided in someone and it was reported to the police, who interviewed her towards the end of 2015.

[David] Challenor was charged in November 2016, West Midlands Police said."

[www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-45373833

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348977-BBC-on-David-Challenor-well-finally-Edited-by-MNHQ-at-OPs-request

AND WHY THE FUCK IS CAROLINE LUCAS NOT ADDRESSING OR EVEN ASKING ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS?

^living at the scene of the crime, obviously