Sunlight not welcomed - trans advocates afraid

"Transbusgirl" on Twitter has posted they are disappointed to not be named on our list of transactivists.

Sorry TransBusGirl - you just don't seem to qualify. You haven't been found guilty of raping little girls (and that's good!), you haven't been advising parliamentary committees, or political parties, and then been found to have been (allegedly) running a flasher's website a la Jess Bradley. You haven't hounded or harassed women online, got them expelled from political parties (again, a good thing). As far as I know, anyway. You haven't tweeted that you're having a shit, or wanking, in the women's toilets to get back at 'terfs' - like some transactivists have on twitter. What can I say? It's good that you don't qualify.

Btw - That episode of Dr Who is the episode starring Derek Jacobi. It is the set up to the 2-part finale of the series, and reveals Derek Jacobi is in fact The Master, but who had wiped his memory. It's called Utopia. Derek Jacobi then morphs into John Simm.

You asked on Twitter. Nobody answered you on twitter, so I thought I'd answer you here. I have a husband and sons (and a daughter) and we all love doctor who.

This thread kinda notices

twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1034128654157008897

"Them" and "us"

Yes, that is what this has turned into: people who want to destroy female-only spaces versus people who want to keep them.

"Tra's "agenda""

Which is to get rid of single sex spaces. Our agenda is to keep them. Both sides have an agenda, this is normal in any conflict.

A list of who is who in the tra world

All of which is collated from publically-available information. No one's addresses were published, nor phone numbers, nor email addresses. And none of us were going to do anything other than review it and look for patterns and links. We certain weren't going to:

1. Publish names, addresses, email addresses, and Labour Party membership numbers in a Google Drive and then try to get those Labour members expelled from the party. Labour Against Women Transphobia did this.
2. Contact employers to get anyone fired. Several TRAs have tried this.
3. Cyber stalk people to find out what unrelated events they attend and threaten to picket them (e.g. a clothing swap organised by Venice Allan at which young children would be present).

Not accepting the suicide rate numbers

The one study, by Stonewall was poorly designed.

1. The sample of people who filled it in were self-selecting, introducing selection bias.
2. The presence or absence of comorbid mental illness, such as depression, was nor recorded and ao could not be controlled for. Comorbid depression is very common in trans teens, affecting 49% of transfeminine teens and 62% of transmasculine teens. Depression is a strong risk factor for suicide and we rightly worry that transition is mistaken for a "magic bullet" when the child needs comprehensive mental health care, a view shared by Tavistock clinicians but less popular with Mermaids.

Calling them "lady dicks"

This is worse than "girldick" how?

Using rape and abuse to illustrate the debate

I am not going to hunt for my earlier post, but basically a penis is a rape weapon and a vagina is an unpatchable security vulnerability. Avoiding rape committed by people who have rape weapons built into their bodies because we can get pregnant from that rape is actually pretty important to us, which is why we are so adamant about having female-only spaces. This has nothing to do with how valid your gender identity is and everything to do with how reproductive biology can be weaponised against female people by male people.

"A man cannot be a woman. Period"

When you show me the clinical evidence that a sperm producer can become an ova producer or vice-versa, I'll review that assertion that a man cannot be a woman.

OED and other dictionaries: woman (noun, countable): adult human female.

An adult human male cannot be an adult human female.

Using the stupid comments of a few dickheads to general

Those "few dickheads" would be allowed in our spaces under self-id and we regard them as a hazard to our safety. Many of those "few dickheads" are prominent trans activists and even hold office:

• Jess "flasher" Bradley, elected NUS Trans Officer so yes, he does represent trans people, who has advised the Women and Equalities Select Committee.
• Shon "enjoy your erasure" Faye.
• Jane "violent porn" Fae.
• Lily Madigan, who considers women's single-sex spaces to be transphobic despite being an elected Labour Women's Officer.
• Aimee "new terfblocker" Challenor who hired her dad as an election agent whilst said dad was under police investigation for child torture and rape, and advised Green Party trans policy.

If anyone has a copy of the deleted thread I would appreciate a gander.

I was part way through that TRA list when it got deleted I was ticking off all the TRAs I was aware of and taking note of new names (new to me at least) to watch out for. The dots are getting joined up. I think this is very important for us to be aware of this tangled web of activists (& the influence they have) because it is starting to show how coordinated this attack on women's rights is.The speed at which it was deleted seems to confirm its importance.

This has confused me:

Message from MNHQ: On balance we're not sure we'd be in favour of this sort of list compiling on Mumsnet were the shoe on the other foot, so we have deleted it

But anyone can compile a list of publicly available info. It’s publicly available!
It’s not secret stuff. No inside knowledge or outing or whatever. The TRAs have put their own views out publicly themselves.

Furthermore Gender critical women face threats of reprisals (rape, attack etc) for speaking out.
There hasn’t been a single threat of violence or rape against a TRA. Not one.

So there isn’t a plausible ‘shoe on the other foot’ scenario is there? - It’s not the same for gender critical women to have put together publicly available info as it would be if TRAs made an ‘equivalent’ list of gender critical women.
because gender critical women don’t seek to to threaten and silence TRAs. On the contrary, we have threads on FWR about how to get #nodebate types and their handmaidens to discuss and hear alternative views..

Haxxor I hope you writing your post offline means you still have a copy. I'd certainly be interested to see it.

We really need a website to collate this information.

Thank you boat. I do actually see what they mean, though I wish it had stayed up long enough for me to read it all. I'm glad the info is being compiled elsewhere. I am so pleased vipers with minds like steel traps are all over this like a rash. Thank you.

Don't they even know about mother's ruin? Sheltered lives, some people lead.

I think this was the kind of thing Jenni Murray got sin-binned for. If you haven’t got that lived female experience of day after relentless day of a toddler hanging off your leg and a baby hanging off your boob whilst you try to turn back a relentless tide of beeping-honking toys and keep some semblance of order in your home in a sleep-deprived haze, you will never understand the absolute necessity of gin. 🤷‍♂️

Another one of the Guardian writing cohort is sharing helpful information on suing for defamation - how does collating and disseminating publicly available information = defamation?
Interestingly, the thread went poof after they @-ted MN towers in their convo ( +several high profile trans activists).

picklemepopcorn If no-one else has posted it (I’m still on p2), this was the deletion message on the list thread.

Message from MNHQ: On balance we're not sure we'd be in favour of this sort of list compiling on Mumsnet were the shoe on the other foot, so we have deleted it.

I think someone's popped over to tell the ladies to be nice again.

Well hello Sarastusta

Saratustra, we are a group of women, mothers or not, feminists or not - who are concerned for women's rights.

I believe that women are oppressed due their biological sex, and their reproductive role (whether they ultimately reproduce or not).

I believe male violence against women and children is epidemic, and I believe the United Nations agrees on that.

I believe that female only spaces, protections and boundaries should be preserved - and it should be based on biological sex rather than gender identity.

I believe my daughter has the right to change in an area accessible to natal females only, use female only toilets, and be on a female only hospital ward. She should not have to give up her space on a girls sports team, girls school or any other space reserved for females, to a male.

I am concerned that the safeguarding of women and children is being eroded by transactivism, and that loopholes are being allowed that will allow predatory males into female only spaces - and that loop hole is "gender identity" and self ID. Any man being able to say he identifies as a woman.

I believe my views are supported by several recent high profile media reports, arrests and court cases.

Because nothing says international women's day like threatening women with oral rape.

Nothing says I'm a woman like suck my dick.

saratustra

You can't, in all conscience, berate the women here over what they're saying, and then claim that what they are actually saying are 'stupid comments by a few dickheads.'

Is it just the quantity that is bothering you?

Because if you want quantity

terfisaslur.com/

If someone's definition of hate = failure to centre men and their feelings at the expense of the rights, safety & dignity of women and girls then I don't think there's much more to say...

Re. transactivists and their lady-dicks - here is the infamous tweet by D Muscato, which Muscato thought was a suitable way to celebrate international women's day.

Because nothing says international women's day like threatening women with oral rape.

Anyone say Streisand effect yet?

Saratustra would you prefer if we just shut up and let the anti woman bigots remove all safeguards and allow women and children to be at serious risk from all the proponents of this men's sexual rights movement? Sorry.....ain't never going to happen.

Calling them "lady dicks"

Eh? That's a quotation of what some transwomen call their penises.

Shonky statistics and fake facts are not welcome here, especially not about a subject this serious.

The statistic showing 48% of trans people have attempted suicide was based on a self selecting survey of 27 people.
www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

"Them" and "us" = women and misogynists
"Tra's "agenda" = anti-women propaganda and activism
A list of who is who in the tra world = a list of anti-women activists
Not accepting the suicide rate numbers = believing in facts
Calling them "lady dicks"= using trans people's own descriptions
Using rape and abuse to illustrate the debate - more facts
"A man cannot be a woman. Period" - and yet more facts [sigh]
Using the stupid comments of a few dickheads to general

The last one - we are quoting many, many activists who are demonstrating clearly their disdain and indeed hatred for women. Sadly, not just a few, many.

haXXor - you might want to quote Dr Harrop on what doxxing is and isn't - I don't know how to get that twitter screenshot which is on another thread.

Okay I missed this ... WHY WAS THE THREAD DELETED????

I saw it at the beginning - just two posts - and you won't be surprised to hear found it very helpful!

I can understand individual posts being deleted - but a thread? What was the rationale??

It's not hatred of trans people, saratustra, as you would know if you read threads properly.

It's hatred (caused by fear, in most cases) of anti-women activists