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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave

310 replies

CaitlynsCat · 28/08/2018 19:38

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/decisions-led-dad-become-transgender-1944624

"As well as having made the huge decision to begin transgender treatment, Martin also decided that he would not hide any longer.

He would come out as a transgender woman - as Katie - in a way which was very publicly indeed.

Since then, he has been shouting his experiences from the rooftops via social media and local radio and – by and large – has received something of a hero’s welcome."

"Martin/Katie was not only heterosexual, he wanted a child.

He cut his hair, fell in love and the couple had a child together, who is the apple of his eye.

Then in May last year, Martin went to see a clairvoyant he had met at a business networking meeting.

“I went along for a reading because I’d never been to one and I was intrigued,” she says.

What she told him was that he needed to start a new way of being and said there was a part of him that had always been there but that he was not fully in integrity with."

"after that, my gender dysphoria increased dramatically – I was so desperate to identify myself I even Googled ‘what gender is Martin Neeves?’ ”

Desperate, confused and in turmoil, he joined a support group on social media and someone suggested he should see a specialist gender counsellor.

After four successful sessions, in which he says he "hit the ground running", he felt that he was "gender fluid" ("nature doesn’t do black and white, it presents a whole spectrum.")"

"Katie now says: “After counselling and working through therapy on how to identify your gender, I now know I am 70 percent female and 30 percent male.

"It was my fear stopping me from admitting I am actually a transgender woman.”

A second visit to the clairvoyant resulted in a four-hour clarification session using deep meditation and other methods as a way of encouraging and revealing inner truth, with all the answers coming from Martin."

"She looks wonderful and feels great. Her prescribed hormones have made her skin soft, and as a naturally slightly-built person, she has an enviable figure.

She counts herself lucky as many other transgender women are naturally of a heavy build.

Brave determination has paid off, she is happier and more relaxed than ever.

Katie’s name will not be considered for the long waiting list for the actual operation to make her into a woman sexually, until she has lived full-time for a woman as a year."

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gendercritter · 29/08/2018 14:09

Rat I am very sorry you have had a traumatic time recently. I hope you're ok.

Individuals like this do harm. This is not someone trying to live a quiet life as a woman. This is someone who is a)flaunting his fetish - I don't take kindly to being given no choice as to whether or not I am involved in someone getting their rocks off - and b) actively trying to establish a public platform for themselves. He has started a You Tube channel and is actively courting press attention.

I am aware that to you, a gender identity is a tangible thing and that he is a woman because he says he is. But there are many, many other women here who are saying that biological sex matters to them for some very serious reasons. This man is eroding boundaries and putting pressure on vulnerable women to swallow their own feelings and let him in where he isn't wanted. I am extremely cynical about any male who courts publicity over these issues. By setting himself up as a brave transwoman in the public arena, he will be making women doubt themselves- women who want sex segregayed spaves but who suddenly fear saying anything lest they be branded a bigot, for example.

Can you not see that saying you're '70% female' is extremely offensive to those women who've been disadvantaged directly because of their sex? Would he say that to a girl who had survived fgm as a child and who couldn't identify out of their attack by claiming they were 70% male?

Honestly you are an intelligent woman - it doesn't seem likely you don't get this. I think if you make a tit of yourself by talking about seeing a clairvoyant and reducing being female down to a feeling you deserve a ribbing. Ridicule is quite a powerful tool to take the harm out of something. Men like this are doing harm.

birdbandit · 29/08/2018 14:08

Ah vesuvia, I didn't know that was the definition, thank you.

I've had it described to me differently. Your definition definitely makes for a more personally responsible approach.

IAmSproutycus · 29/08/2018 13:58

I think being born generally taller, generally stronger, generally with higher levels of certain hormones, and generally with less of others (all subject to regional variation 😉) is pretty innate.

Happityhap · 29/08/2018 13:57

What the fuck has Katie got to do with it, other than not sacrificing her award on the basis of your principles?

If I got a letter offering me a knighthood, I'd refuse it as I've done nothing to deserve it.
(Of course, not everyone thinks that way.)

Mrbatmun · 29/08/2018 13:54

Dresses and makeup do not a female make, however I do believe there are innate differences between male and females, as in many other animals.

What kind of differences are you talking about and what evidence are you basing it on? Really not being goady, I am pretty gender critical but still try and keep an open mind on this subject.

Happityhap · 29/08/2018 13:54

Has this particular trans woman done something specific to offend your feminist principles?

Yes, promoting the idea that male-bodied people can be women. That is not part of my feminist principles.

IAmSproutycus · 29/08/2018 13:50

Oi folks 😳, I’m Scottish and we do genuinely often use generic ‘folks’, although I’m weaning myself off it since I realised it dismisses female sex and although ostensibly a sex neutral term, certainly implies males more than females when referring to a mixed group. It does creep into my speech though so every day is a school day. Other than that, nothing to say about the PP.

I did an online one, and I’m 87% male and DH is 90% female. We decided, based on tired old heteronormative tropes, that this is why it works (because heaven forfend two females or two males could have a cracking relationship 😳. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked ‘who’s the man’ when in single sex relationships 🙄

TinyRick · 29/08/2018 13:48

I just don't see how some can read that article and not notice the glaring big red flags scattered throughout.

Baffling.

vesuvia · 29/08/2018 13:45

birdbandit - "I think they are going with the "Two Spirit" ideology".

Even in Two-sprit, I think that gender identity is believed to be internal and not dependent on other people checking genitals at birth.

To be accepted as two-spirit seems to require approval from community elders but this seems to usually occur during adolescence, based on a history of gender non-conformity through childhood.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 13:40

You're far more tactful than me Dommina, and of course you're right.

Dommina · 29/08/2018 13:39

You won't be critical of gender bollocks because you don't think a few GC people are nice enough? So you let other people decide what you think? No wonder you're on the fence

I'm on the fence because Im skeptical of gender as a concept. Dresses and makeup do not a female make, however I do believe there are innate differences between male and females, as in many other animals.

I am often in the company of lovely and genuine TW and TM. Therefore I will listen to what they have to say, and while I don't agree with everything that they say or do, I listen to them.

Maybe their life is a lot of guff. Perhaps in 100 years gender will no longer exist as a concept. However, I am not going to be nasty or dismiss their experiences in the mean time. It accomplishes nothing. I've got to accept there are certain things other people experience that differs from me.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 29/08/2018 13:37

Didn't you see what?

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 13:36

I find it interesting that people (in general) who don't like pesky women standing up for themselves and are very vocal of their criticism of such women, seem to find it very difficult to be vocal in criticising anyone who is trans, no matter what they have done.

Why on earth do you think I don't like women standing up for themselves? That's exactly what I'm doing!!

Sorry, am I supposed to submit to some female hive-mind? No-one can question the one true Queen? Fuck that. If I think you're out of order I'll tell you; man, woman or garden gnome. Although I'm not usually one for laying into people who aren't around to defend themselves...

LadybirdsAreBirds · 29/08/2018 13:35

Pretend to be a child

LadybirdsAreBirds · 29/08/2018 13:35

I have realised what a crazy analogy that was. Of course a school wouldn't allow an adult to pretentious to be a child. And an exam board wouldn't allow a fraud. That would be massively UNFAIR

Oh yeah

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 13:32

I suppose amazed is the wrong word.

I find it interesting that people (in general) who don't like pesky women standing up for themselves and are very vocal of their criticism of such women, seem to find it very difficult to be vocal in criticising anyone who is trans, no matter what they have done.

There seems to be a lot of mental disassociation, along with even more double standards.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 13:29

I'm amazed, though, that a poster who is so interested in trans issues hasn't posted on a single one of the challenor/green party/safeguarding threads.

Oh, didn't you see Maryz? I've had quite a traumatic experience lately and stayed away from the bulk of the disagreement on this subject for the sake of my own sanity and not getting banned for saying things about posters whose views I find abhorrent (I'm far less able to hold my tongue these days...). You'll notice this is my first post on the FWR boards for quite some time. Sorry if it isn't on your preferred thread. Weird that you should have a preference really missed you.

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 13:25

I'm not surprised to note that ratrolypoly has turned up on this thread to tell us how awful we are.

I'm amazed, though, that a poster who is so interested in trans issues hasn't posted on a single one of the challenor/green party/safeguarding threads.

terryleather · 29/08/2018 13:24

He’s an AGP crossdresser and he thinks this makes him a woman. That is offensive in its own right

Ha! My previous post should have been this quote.

This. All day long.

TheCountryGirl · 29/08/2018 13:22

I'm pretty on the fence with the GC stuff -it's this kind of nastiness which makes sure I will never be full blown GC.

😂 You won't be critical of gender bollocks because you don't think a few GC people are nice enough? So you let other people decide what you think? No wonder you're on the fence.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 29/08/2018 13:18

I would not enter the children's 100m race at my local primary school and then crow about winning it.

I wouldn't retake my maths gcse, having gained a degree in maths, and accept a glowing report in the local paper at attaining an A

Guess I am not nice enough

birdbandit · 29/08/2018 13:10

(Dunno what happened there with the socks, wasn't suggesting we had puppets on this thread)

birdbandit · 29/08/2018 13:09

I'm on it like a rocket.

littlbrowndog · 29/08/2018 13:09

Sorry bird for children 💐

birdbandit · 29/08/2018 13:08

🧦 🧦

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