Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave

Amazing person! Able to win a woman's award when identifying as a woman p/t.

When Martyn lives his fetish full time come September 1st, the world of women's awards will be at their feet, watch out Bruce!

Rat, there are a fair few people around who are having a shit time at the moment, and my sympathy goes to all of them, including you, so I too hope you are ok.

However, having a hard time doesn't excuse dismissing other people's concerns, or alluding to them being bigoted etc etc etc. I can't claim that the fact that I'm having a shite time irl gives me the green card to repeatedly minimise other people's issues, no matter how unimportant they think they are.

You say:

This idea of "flaunting a fetish". The thing with involving someone in your fetish against their consent is that that is only actually prohibited - or even policeable - when the perpetrator is actually doing something outside of the social norm, or the victim is caused tangible harm - Top Shop Travis is a good example of forcing other people to be involved in a fetish. As is Jess Bradley. As is any person with a penis who exposes it in a (up until very recently) female space.

The fact that the entire trans community, and you (it appears) think that they are ok to do this and anyone who objects is a bigot means that I don't have any respect for the feelings of those people. They (and you) don't care about my feelings, or about the many women and girls who might be upset.

So you think someone's trangenderism is a fetish. If that person goes about their life - in toilets, changing rooms, wherever they're permitted - in a respectful, law abiding and polite fashion they have not victimised anyone (as is the case with voyeurism, for example). Nor have they haven't behaved inappropriately for their own sexual thrills

I don't believe all transgenderism is about fetishes, no. I believe some individuals experience extreme distress at their sexed bodies. I am generalising but they tend to live quietly. I don't believe many would accept awards meant for women.

Equally though, I don't believe any fetish is as simple as you are stating. As a 7 year old child I believe I narrowly escaped being assaulted by my babysitter's boyfriend who she sneaked into the house. I can't ever prove anything with regards that but as a 7 year old with no knowledge of sex, my hackles were raised and I knew instinctively this man was a threat in some very serious way. He was pushing to take me to bed on my own and looking at me in a certain way.

I'm trying in a long winded way that females can sense threat at all ages. There is a difference between the transsexual living quietly and the AGP male staring at one, plastered in make up and wearing provocative (stereotypical) female clothing. Can you prove anything with regards their behaviour? No. Women negotiate these silent threats every day at worst and the law doesn't care. It is obvious when someone is involving you in their fetish. A lot of women have a problem with that, including me. It does me harm. It knocks confidence in how safe one is and how valued one is by society. Very little needs to be done for a woman to feel that way.

If that person goes about their life - in toilets, changing rooms, wherever they're permitted - in a respectful, law abiding and polite fashion they have not victimised anyone (as is the case with voyeurism, for example).

In toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards there is opportunity for voyeurism.

By accepting 'womens' awards, they are depriving female women.

By male-bodied people taking part in girls' and women's sport, they are making it almost impossible for females to achieve anything in sport, and may be exposing females to physical injury.

You are so right sweetie pie. My bad as they say.

birdbandit, I mean this in the most positive sense, I see you and I hear your perspective here on the people who do actually suffer because of the kind of behaviour mentioned in the OP, and the fire it gives your responses. All the shifting optics away from actual victims to the braveandstunning doesn't dull the blade of your words. You keep on xx

(Just an aside, I keep seeing this pattern)

Someone "you are all mean".
Reply: but what about this?
Someone: "par answer, repeat you are all mean"
Reply: more questions/examples.
Someone: disappears for an hour/no reply to points, reappears often with vague reference to their own struggles, and repeats from top.

The award thing does have a tangible effect on society though (or possibly is reflective of a bad thing in society).

When someone like Pips Bunce or this Katie person, neither of whom identify full time or 100% as women, are given a women's award. It's not just that they don't have the insight to refuse it (which would be the honourable thing to do) it's the structure surrounding it.

Somewhere out there, the teams at the Financial Times Top 50 Women In Business, and the East Midlands Women's Awards, decided to give an award to a male who doesn't even regard themselves as a woman all the time.

In doing that, those teams are saying either

a) We can't find enough women worthy of this award (which is misogynist)

or

b) We think these awards exist not to redress the heavily tilted playing field and to recognise that women, having been socialised as girls and then living as women with the associated care / household / discrimination burdens, struggle to access a fair bite at the cherry, but rather as a reward for being feminine - if you like, an unfair reward simply for being a woman (#whenisinternationalmensday). Which is even more misogynistic, it's an outright MRA position.

If Katie or Pips had a measure of empathy with women, rather than just identification as them (sometimes / 70%) they would understand that accepting the award does cause harm, because it reflects and /or contributes to misogyny.

Cis women can need maternity pay/return to work, Transwomen not so much.

But if they are one and the same in the law...you seriously believe no one will use that?

I've decided that I want to be stunning and brave.

I haven't actually done anything but I did recently change the pump in the loo, and on dress down Fridays usually wear jeans and a tshirt.

Well the laws about to be changed, a new loophole for the abuser/ voyeur etc, and given we can only accomplish what was it a 2% conviction rate for sexual assaults that's not a loophole we need.

And women wanting to fight sexual discrimination in the future? Another massive loophole there.

Still telling ppl rat

What to say

What to think

What to write

Rats, you are as guilty as anyone else of projecting your ideas of what transgender "is".

In your case, you see the evidence, and based upon your understanding (?) come to the conclusion that the person means no harm.

I see the evidence, and based upon my experience, I worry about this individuals child, and their rights in this.

birdbandit I'll tell you who decides whether criminal harm has been caused to a victim...

THE LAW.

Rats, what we don't do in a civilised society is turn a blind eye, or accept it as someone's "right" to involve others either unwittingly and unwillingly in their sex game. Because they "aren't doing any harm".

Who decides whether harm is possible, when you remove the safeguards.

Absolutely Ladybirds we need to break the cycle. We need more intervention and safeguarding, not less.

This trans male is nobody special or distinctive actually. Women wear wigs and make up every day - so what. Bravery is a woman saying No. No, you don't get to work your shit out by abusing us.

Hear hear seafret

Society also needs to decide how much support it's prepared to pay for for victims, for themselves and lest they become perpetrators too

Quite some time like yesterday Rat? You know, when you said you didn't want to say what sport you were expert in?

Is yesterday quite some time? Hmmmm.

If you look very closely you'll notice that was on AIBU darling.

Thanks gendercritter, I'm okay. Less in control of my emotions in the short term it would seem, but I hope I haven't snarled at anyone too hurtfully.

There's a lot in your post. I don't disagree with many of the premises but I do come to different conclusions, which I think is okay - for both of us. But I will rebuke one thing...

This idea of "flaunting a fetish". The thing with involving someone in your fetish against their consent is that that is only actually prohibited - or even policeable - when the perpetrator is actually doing something outside of the social norm, or the victim is caused tangible harm. To otherwise police whether or not someone finds something arousing is entirely dependent on policing their thoughts. And we don't do that in a civilised society.

So you think someone's trangenderism is a fetish. If that person goes about their life - in toilets, changing rooms, wherever they're permitted - in a respectful, law abiding and polite fashion they have not victimised anyone (as is the case with voyeurism, for example). Nor have they haven't behaved inappropriately for their own sexual thrills (as is the case of exhibitionism, for example). So whatever it is you want to demonise them for, it is only what you believe is inside their heads.

And we don't do that.

"Shame" and age 3 are all part of the script. I've watched my STBXHs narrative change from "I have a sissy/humiliation/crossdressing fetish" to a more palatable script about gender feelings, over the last couple of years.

Really sorry you have gone through some shit Bird

I think that having deep shame from a childhood event - usually not a one off - doesn't mean that you have to validate whatever strange behaviours come out of that or that society should enable that.

Having gender ideology bollocks to latch onto just gives these men an excuse not to do the emotional and psychological work that so many women have to, in order not to become warped human beings.

We need men to work harder, but as so often the take they easy path and bulldoze women and children to get what they want.

Good post gendercritter.

I really miss the days when the male midlife crisis just involved buying a sports car and getting a hair transplant.

So true.

You'll notice this is my first post on the FWR boards for quite some time.

Quite some time like yesterday Rat? You know, when you said you didn't want to say what sport you were expert in?

Is yesterday quite some time? Hmmmm.

I am often in the company of lovely and genuine TW and TM.

But if those people won't think about the safeguarding dangers ahead, from uncritically accepting anyone as the sex they choose to identify as, are they really so lovely?

Or, have they thought about it and they have a solution ready, Dommina?

sex segregayed spaves

Sorry, my phone seems to have a lisp