To ‘out’ or not to ‘out’ re GC position

I think preferred pronouns get silly when people want bonkers invented pronouns or to pretend "they" can refer to just one person.
I might give someone the opposite sex pronoun as a courtesy if I liked them but have more respect for a man who could behave and dress in a feminine way but be comfortable with "he" rather than wanting to be indulged in "let's pretend" games

I have queried the use of 'gender' when I think what is meant is 'sex' and I have talked about feminism, trans issues and more with friends and colleagues. The conversations I've had have been interesting and civil, even when we've come from different viewpoints.
I am open with my views, I am GC, don't consider myself 'anti-trans' but I won't subscribe to TWAW.
Equally, I'm not out to marginalise or hurt anyone and would use preferred pro-nouns etc.

I'm out socially and have liked and retweeted GC content. But I am way more careful and anxious about anything I say / share in this arena than I am with any other views I hold or campaigns I support. This Crucible / Big Brother thought control is what makes it so worrying. I don't like the 'right side of history' label, but I think it is the fear of being seen as reactionary or regressive among people who are anything but that has enabled the divisive and extreme views of what started as a small minority to gain traction.

Totally disagree Jasminemaya. As my friends and colleagues contain a lot of people who work in science based areas they'd think I was stupid if I believed men could magically turn in to women. It's not nice v nasty but logical and intelligent v brainless mantra chanting lemming

I'm out, but not going OTT about it as that can be boring and put people off if you only have 1 topic of conversation. I don't make a secret of it and don't lie about my opinions but am not evangelically zealous to friends and colleagues either

I will raise comments with close friends around safeguarding and high-profile news reports. They are mainly unaware of TRAs and do not know about the trans definition umbrella. I had first conversation about GRA consultation with my aged parents this week. I will not raise in my public sector role ...unless it gets to the point I feel it would be a dereliction of my duty ...then I might change my gender to northern aggressive

It's a bit like coming out as a UKIP voter or a Daily Mail journalist. People will realise you are not very nice. Depends whether you care.

Sprout
I am not convinced that the issue is that of being articulate but more about feeling confident that your views are nothing to be ashamed of/are not transphobic. I expect they are not but you have been led to believe that people will see them this way. This is where the current TRA power lies.

If you want to share your views, take your time. You don't have to nail it in a few sentences. If people misinterpret/twist your words, put them straight. Maybe have a few 'default scripts' up your sleeve such as 'no, that's not what I am saying' or 'you are misunderstanding the issues are am raising'. IRL and in social situation, people can't block you or shout bigot. If the talk over you, deliberately twist your words etc. this is very transparent and will not win arguments.

I do know of someone who works with the public (mostly women.) and is making it their mission to talk about all this with everyone they see- they are saying the same thing.

I’m happily popping it into conversation wherever it’s appropriate at the moment. Most people I know that I’m speaking to are agreeing and can’t believe things have got so far.

I'm very undercover. But occasionally I can raise something along the lines of 'of course I support trans people's right to live as their preferred gender, but how do we stop toxic men from screwing over trans people and everyone else by abusing that?'
Helps that I have a fair number of experiences from my own life where this has actually happened - men who have never said they were women, until there was a way for them to screw over women by doing so.
I also seem to get away with talking directly about my own life experiences more than in generalities. Examples of where I've been treated worse directly for having a female body, such as unsympathetic and discriminatory responses to my needing flexible working around endometriosis.

Great Post Beau there are good tips there.

In the past month I have been open about my views. I am open now because I am 100% confident that my views are not discriminatory and that I feel intolerably silenced by keeping them to myself.

However, I do not raise issues but rather comment on them when they arise. For example, this week at work, I had to fill in a form. It had a section entitled 'Gender' and the options were males, female, transgender, non binary, rather not say. I asked the department who produced the form whether they wanted information about my sex or my gender identity and asked them why they wanted it/ what they were using it for.

During a team meeting, a discussion took place where by people were stating (in a manner that was assuming 100% agreement) that it was 'ridiculous that people are so scared of penises'. I proffered that I can understand why many women may be anything from uncomfortable to scared by the presence of male bodied people in spaces where they don't expect to see them. I also said that such women deserve as much thought and consideration as male bodied people who experience similar feelings in spaces for male bodied people.

I have yet to have anyone shout me down or even try to silence me. I have had a few attempts of people wanting to patronise/educate me. I have responded by asking them questions that they couldn't answer. One then ended the discussion with a 'we'll have to agree to disagree' and the other cried. To this I empathised and said it is indeed very difficult but I'm sure we can find ways forward that ensures everybody's needs can be considered.

Whilst I tend to mix and work in very 'right on' circles, instead of being problematic, it is quite easy to talk. It is not socially acceptable to dismiss people's views (unless they are derailing another conversation or tub thumping when no one is interested) and without the capacity to shut down, rather wokey's have no mechanism to stop reasonable discussion taking place.

Longtimelurking seems to sum up the problem.

Decent people will support and accept colleagues. The problem is when some demand that there is only one version of the truth, that there is no scope for debate, that dissenters should be punished, and that one group’s needs/demands trump all.

In a reasonable environment there should be scope for discussion and compromise. Instead one vocal group have been given a pass to bully, or worse. Whilst intelligent and dedicated staff have to sit through ‘training’ wondering if anyone will be brave enough to observe that the emperor has no clothes.

I plan to drip feed. To mention news stories.

We have mixed loos and the men piss all over the floor and leave seats up. They ignore the notices to keep clean/put lid down.

This is pissing off every woman now. I've already said "Mixed sex toilets are not fair on women" and am listening out for the lovely gender neutral phrase.

We have some training around safeguarding soon, so that will be interesting.

The best support is for non represented trans is mutual support, Without being too outing my branch would have seen you sacked for being gay or trans and I'm both lol, and it was horrifically homophobic, misogynistic and a touch transphobic, The employer has taken fantastic steps to modernise and normalise attitudes. But there is still that little hard core that wont, Women have always been my ally, myself and other gay guys have had our corner fought for us and in return fought women's corner when the "women have no place doing xyz types" raise their voices or try and engineer their downfall etc.
As for taking on the TRA's damaging approach I'm at a loss and will just carry on as before, I can only hope common sense breaks out and within their ranks that any moderates will take control and steer things onto a more mainstream/thoughtful approach to female concerns and how to interact with the wider community,
I hope this makes sense as I'm more of a short hit and run occasional posting lurker than an eloquent intelligent poster.

Hi IAmSproutycus
Thank you and like you saddened to see some people try to drive a wedge between us, We have a TRA type at work and I have to very careful as he/she would love to see me hang for my views on access to womens spaces and that TW aren't actual women and we can never be,
But please be careful for you employment, Us civil and public servants are going to be under the cosh as our respective organisations bend over backwards for this crowd.

I would be most careful about it. I also work in not quite the public sector but for another gov body, If I say anything that is deemed to bring the organsiation into disrepute I will lose my job, This also includes what I say politically or socially as they unrealistically claim it could be construed as their views. Although trans I don't agree with most of what some are pushing for or their views that TWAW and if outed would expect to face a disciplinary hearing leading to dismissal.

Actually Sproutycus, having re-read some of your posts, I wonder if we're working for the same service! All of that sounds very familiar . . .

IAmSproutycus -

I understand your anxiety. I work for the NHS, and raised concerns about this issue months ago, in relation to safeguarding and risk.

I've yet to receive a response to my concerns.

I have to be honest - the process has been gruelling. It has also impacted upon relationships with one or two people at work, despite the fact that they broadly agree with my position . Awkwardness, rather than anything more serious. These people have known me for many years though, which I think helps. I do also know they also have a grudging respect that I'm pointing out the emperor has no clothes on.

The most distressing aspect for me has been observing how otherwise smart, responsible professionals, with an excellent understanding of safeguarding are persisting in sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it's not happening.

What keeps me going is knowing that the reason no one is willing to respond to my concerns is that their position is indefensible.

I want a response; I want someone to sit in front of me and tell me my fears are unfounded, so that I can point out, again, and with evidence, why they're not.

I rarely post, and I name change quite a bit, but also wanted to say that I've had support from some amazing women on here which has made a huge difference to me / kept me sane. Their advice has been bloody brilliant.

Happy to pass some of that support on if I can help with anything.

Good luck

Gosh, that was a bit unnecessary, Trousered

Sprouty appears to be looking for advice and a helpful discussion, not a lecture and a scolding.