Luke Pollard MP - Plymouth “Trans women are women”

Sorry, hugely tired today, and I can't remember who said it upthread, but I thought it was an excellent point that no one ever leads in with 'Transmen are men'.

This really needs highlighting - they say it, but it is always an afterthought. The Big Win is to get someone to say the mantra 'Transwomen are women'.

If I had to guess why it would be because the chanters have no interest in redefining 'men', because everyone understands that men's boundaries aren't in the slightest danger of being ignored. No, Women need to redefined as a priority project, because their boundaries are the target point.

I amazed how many men feel they have the right to change the definition of women

Guy told me at work the same thing and apparently he has met quite a few and I was told to believe him I wouldn’t never guess

Oh yes I would we process how we view others differently

Anyone remember the bold David Lewis? Hi David, if you are out there! I hope Mr Pollard will now acknowledge that David is a woman (on Wednesdays).

For those who don't remember it - David was suspended from the Labour Party, after applying for the post of Women's Officer in Basingstoke. He self-identifed as a woman "on and off" on Wednesdays. He did not change his appearance and had a very nice beard.

www.theweek.co.uk/93833/why-trans-on-wednesdays-activist-was-suspended-by-labour

"My vagina looks like a penis"

53rd

I would like someone to explain how “trans women are women” is not the same kind of statement as “property is theft” or “Jesus is the son of God” or “the Dalai Lama gets reincarnated” or “my country, right or wrong”. These are all statements which are deeply meaningful to various people and form a strong part of their belief systems, and we’d protect anyone’s right to say them, but we’d never consider it acceptable for those who say them to demand that everyone else must recite them too.

Yes - a hundred times this. I will defend to the death your right to recite, for e.g., the Catholic Catechism. I will resist all attempts to force me to recite it.

Transwomen are biologically male individuals with dysphoria/feelings of extreme discomfort about their sexed bodies, and I support them in taking the necessary steps in their own lives to live in such a way as to ease this discomfort. Transwomen should be supported to dress as they like, call themselves what they like, and not face discrimination in housing or employment or access to (non sex-specific) goods and services. Where they live their lives successfully in a way that brings them comfort, they should be celebrated for doing so, as all people who honestly live their lives according to their beliefs and with respect for other people should be celebrated. But they cannot encroach on spaces set up for biological women's safety and dignity and medical needs and fair competition in sport.

Lots of men on that thread

And they don't sugar-coat it

Also this whole “biological sex is a spectrum” bullshit makes me want to “identify” as non-spectrum.

Loving the work of Owen on that thread.

You can see people blindly following this rhetoric and chanting the stock phrases but you can’t even argue it because they change the meaning of words! Mind bending.

The phrase "you can't argue with stupid" comes to mind!

Does anyone fancy showing Pollard Connor Kelly’s excellent Medium piece?

It’s the absolute best thing I’ve read so far regarding the whole ‘TWAW’ mantra, and being from a gay man’s viewpoint, might get through to Pollard in a way us Terfy McTerf-Face types cannot.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3347538-Connor-Kelly-another-gay-GC-ally-comes-out

But what is the government going to do about the legal fiction they have created, in allowing men to legally change sex? How realistically does this situation move forward?

Because back in the day, obviously no one seems to have thought (beyong being nice and kind) where this could all lead - me included.

under schedule 9 of the Human Rights Act we have freedom of thought, belief and religion

yes indeed...

I would like someone to explain how “trans women are women” is not the same kind of statement as “property is theft” or “Jesus is the son of God” or “the Dalai Lama gets reincarnated” or “my country, right or wrong”. These are all statements which are deeply meaningful to various people and form a strong part of their belief systems, and we’d protect anyone’s right to say them, but we’d never consider it acceptable for those who say them to demand that everyone else must recite them too.

The most mind bending part is when people claim that some women have penises. I can almost accept that after surgery etc it’s the ‘right thing to do’ to say that a trans woman is a woman even though biologically I don’t believe that they have changed sex .

While they retain their cock and balls, not a chance.

And then they challenge someone else’s assertion that women don’t have penises with “prove it” and repost the sticker with the wording changed to ‘some women have penises’. When you change the meaning of the word ‘woman’ and dismiss the biological facts around reproduction you can argue anything. I think that’s what gives me the rage - it’s the impotence! You can see people blindly following this rhetoric and chanting the stock phrases but you can’t even argue it because they change the meaning of words! Mind bending.

But what is the government going to do about the legal fiction they have created, in allowing men to legally change sex? How realistically does this situation move forward?

Transwomen are trans-identifying males
Transmen are trans-identifying females

#rightsideofbiology

Agreed happy. Dare I say it but this relentless assertion that TWAW is actually pretty transphobic. There's nothing inherently wrong with being trans. Own it!

Ha how nice to read some heartening comments on that thread! I've decided I won't ever explain what a woman is again. When people say TWAW they are either being polite or making a political statement. Almost everybody knows what a woman is. Almost everybody knows that the word meant something before gender identities. And if whatever their idea of a brighter future is comes to pass, almost all of these people will continue to know what a woman is. At the very least they'll need to know which road accident victims to harvest uteruses from and I very much doubt they'll be saying "no thanks" to ones that belonged to trans men and non binary women.

Trans women are trans women. They should be treated as any other human being, but women have every right to keep sex segregated spaces women only. Men need to make space in their own sex segregated spaces for these biological males who feel they are women, or third spaces should be provided when needed. Then this whole argument between women & trans people would disappear.

DogLady's avatar looks familiar!

Bloody TERFy livers, refusing to acknowledge the rights of the people they're in to identify as the gender the feel they are.

I mean Article not Schedule.

We don't have to say transwomen are women...under schedule 9 of the Human Rights Act we have freedom of thought, belief and religion. Also, to be legally recognised as women, they must have a GRC.

I was listening to a thing on R4 the other day about alcohol and how men and women process it differently. It occurred to me that this is another physical fact that proves transwomen are not women. It’s just such rubbish.

I have a good friend who is a gay man, who is always tweeting about TERFs and the like (I suspect he may not be a good friend for much longer!). I always want to ask him - and this MP - if they would sleep with a transman who has a vagina.

Just because - they say so

I still want someone to tell me why we have to say that transwomen are women.