should young girls go to prison for "false rape claims"

We don’t have to make this gendered.
The man who falsely accused Louis Walsh of sexual assault was jailed. Correctly I think.

What is your point?

A civil conviction after a not guilty verdict in a criminal case does not serve as an indictment of the latter. While the criminal justice system has some pretty serious flaws, 'beyond all reasonable doubt' is not one of them.

The media reports crimes by women and POC at a much higher rate than that of white males. As a result people believe that women and POC commit crimes at very high rates.

Perhaps they don't assume it happens so very often. Perhaps they just don't dismiss it on the basis that it's rare.

An important aspect is what people believe to be true rather than what is true.
The media reports crimes by women and POC at a much higher rate than that of white males. As a result people believe that women and POC commit crimes at very high rates.
Some white males actually believe that they are the majority population of the world because everything they know they learned from watching white men on television.
Representation matters. It is used by the media both to tell the truth and to tell lies.

Gronky I am well aware of that.

What is your point?

There have been a couple of cases recently where women who got a not guilty / not proven (scotland) went to civil courts and won

Yes there have

In a very recent one the accused was fined 100k

If perjury or providing false statements to the police can be proven then I believe it's far more damaging to the credibility of actual rape victims for the precedent to be be set that lying about rape carries no penalties.

NothingOnTellyAgain The threshold for guilt in civil cases is lower than criminal cases.

There is lengthy, sensitive, careful and balanced guidance issued by the Crown Prosecution Service around the complex issues in case of false allegations.

A TEAM of people from a range of agencies monitor and review the (very rare) cases in real time. There are checks and balances and a host of considerations: the police action is reviewed; CPS's actions are reviewed and so on and so on. There are specialist investigators and lawyers involved.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/false-allegations-rape-andor-domestic-abuse-see-guidance-charging-perverting-course

The USA does things differently.

I assume they are talking about malicious allegations which are pretty rare (not out of step with other false reports of crime).

Clearly it would be beyond nuts to send every woman / girl (boy / man) who reported and anything happened other than a "guilty" verdict.

A woman was imprisoned for a false retraction of rape though so that was um a great decision.

There have been a couple of cases recently where women who got a not guilty / not proven (scotland) went to civil courts and won.

A jury can only convict if they are sure "beyond all reasonable doubt". Which why is so many victims never even go to the police. And so many cases end in acquittal. Does that then constitute proof "beyond all reasonable doubt" that the alleged victim was lying? Do you honestly believe that miscarriages of justice never happen?

The "8, 9,10" in the quote from the doc refers to the following notes:

" Note 40% of rapes were in domestic violence situations impacting on victim retractions (see Table 21 in
Appendix A). 9
Note this broader definition includes cases wherein there may be no evidence of the allegation being ’false’. 10 GBH is typically a violent act with physical injury, whereas an injury from rape may not always be visible nor
witnessed. "

If it's a proven lie, yes, prison.

Look at that report about no criming a few years back.

The variation in % of rapes no crimed was massive between different forces. Only an idiot would conclude that women and girls in X region were compulsively lying about being raped all the time while in Y region they were not. Rather than the more obvious conclusion that the forces had different attitudes and approaches to this crime.

We go over and over this stuff. Anonimity for men accused of rape as there's a massive stigma and it's not the same as other crimes. What , lke child torture, ripping off vulnerable old people, extreme animal cruelty, beating people while you're working as a carer for vulnerable people with learning disabilities.... Really? There's not much stigma for those crimes?

No - it's because it is a crime where the victims are presumed to be likely to be malicious liars, which is where it differs from other crimes. Because sexism, because rape myths.

Why do we have to rehash this over and over and over?

"False allegations
A variety of definitions of false allegations of rape were found to be in operation amongst police and prosecutors. Some definitions included recording intoxicated victims, delayed reporting, victim retraction,8
and lack of physical injury / medical evidence as false allegations.9
Using definitions reflecting such perceptions would lead to lassifying 12% of rape cases in the database as false. However, a narrower definition focusing on complaints that were perceived to be malicious would classify 3% as false. Even when taking the broader definition, the prevalence of false allegations in GBH cases was lower (2%). The
findings suggest a clear difference in the perceived nature10 and frequency of false complaints across the sexual/non-sexual divide. "

from the link
Boggling that anyone can use that to say 12% of accusations are definitely false when reading that it is quite clear that it says that police, prosecutors etc assume lots of women / girls are lying for totally random reasons and when those ficgures are taken uncritically it comes to 12%.

To repeat the 12% includes " Some definitions included recording intoxicated victims, delayed reporting, victim retraction,8
and lack of physical injury / medical evidence as false allegations".

So WHY this is seriously being used as a "gotcha" is anyone's guess, comprehension issues I assume.

Women and girls who are found to be definitely provably lying are taken to court and tried. These cases are then reported in the papers at a much higher rate than any actual rapes including convictions, giving the impression that the two are equivalent in frequency. They are not.

Then you get the common idea that anything other than "not guilty" means "innocent" and all those women and girls should be punished.

This is bogstandard rape myth stuff.

Very strange sillage

But to be fair...i did try and introduce a 'what about men' bit

Funny how this is the one thread about rape where there "Men get raped too!" posters aren't doing their thing, the gender neutralizing of "people get raped by people" isn't being trotted out.

Are you saying that MRAs want equality then? Or are only men as a group responsible for their actions?

Of course it should apply to men too, but in reality the majority of false rape claims are brought by women so its women's responsibility to sort this out.

This'll be the MRA response to 'it's men's job to sort out male violence', then.

I'm not so convinced. The number of examples put forward in this thread alone show that it's a fairly widespread issue and yet we still have posters trying to argue that it doesn't ruin lives becaude mist men aren't innocent.

I think it is being sorted out

Confused as why you think its not being sorted out

Of course it should apply to men too, but in reality the majority of false rape claims are brought by women so its women's responsibility to sort this out.

Just women

Or should we send men who make false accusations away as well

We haven't really said men but i assume that we all feel the same way about them

I think it's disgusting that women do this and they should absolutely be sent to prison.

prawn

I know someone accused of sexual assault

Luckily for him there was cctv evidence and the accuser confessed to having been persuaded to do it by a third party