should young girls go to prison for "false rape claims"

there were two of them, and two young men..:(

the only girls I know of who 'invented false rape claims' did it because they were terrified of their dads finding out that they had sex lives

You personally know more than one ?

the only girls I know of who 'invented false rape claims' did it because they were terrified of their dads finding out that they had sex lives....

@PlantsArePeopleToo , I note you have no interest in admitting that you both speculated on the facts surrounding a suicide then condemned people who do the same, all within one message.

I will take the high ground and admit that my terminology was incorrect.

I wasn't taking issue with their disagreement regarding the facts, I was taking issue with their speculating before making an appeal against speculation.

Regarding the rest of your message, I made no commentary either way on men being tied up and kicked to death by gangs of women. Might I suggest that you re-read the thread, paying particular attention to who said what? I really do hope this is just an honest misunderstanding on your part because, otherwise, it's disturbingly close to gaslighting.

I love how @Gronky is more interested in picking my post apart than admitting she was wrong to toss the phrase 'false accusation' around so carelessly.

Gronky so you have decided in your court of 1 that the case you are talking about with plants was definitely a false accusation.

While plants says no-one knows.

In what way is your version the right one then?

You're guessing to support whatever argument it it you're trying to make here -
Which I'm still not sure what it is past wittering on about men being tied up and kicked to death by gangs of women only no that wont' work as even a large gang of women couldn't damage a lone tied up man.

What exactly is your purpose here on this thread?

There has to be a serious deterrent to perjury and that has to be prison, really. Otherwise the courts can be used to settle any vendetta.

Jonathan Aitken was locked up for perjury with very few protesting that it was an unjust punishment, despite the fact he was only trying to get monetary damages on a libel case and there was no danger of anyone being permanently damaged or false imprisonment.

For all we know his suicide might have had nothing or very little to do with the rape accusation and he may well have committed suicide regardless considering his prior history.

If you don't think something should be discussed because you find it crass or disrespectful then I can sympathise but this is pure hypocrisy.

Nothing in my post was speculation. Everything I said is out there in the public domain.

@PlantsArePeopleToo

For all we know his suicide...

speculating is just crass and inappropriate

That is rather having your cake and eating it too.

I've just had a Google and was that text message the only evidence that Ross Bullock was being falsely accused? Because people do realise it's not unusual in date rape and acquaintance rape cases for the victim to be in shock afterwards and try to carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened, right? So the fact that she sent him a text afterwards doesn't really prove much tbh.

Also is she currently being investigated for making a false claim or have they already investigated her and come up with nothing? Either way, people need to be careful as she hasn't actually been charged with anything yet. Innocent until proven guilty and all that....

Yes, to the original op, only if its beyond doubt she has told a pack of lies.

If there is clear evidence, eg from phone records etc that they lied then they should get a fine and a suspended sentence. I don’t think locking them up is the answer.

They have wrecked someone’s life. Unfortunately as it stands now they can go on to repeat offend.

@weilbald no they're not. A false claim is a separate crime and a separate trail to rape.

I think that false accusations of serious crimes should be treated a civil claims in court only (defamation, libel). The potential awards of damages should be unlimited (as the are due to the equitable nurture of tort) and should be as punatuvely high and should not be tied into the affordability to the defendant but purely the damage done to the claimants reputation and a bit more to be punatuvely if necessary. There is absolutely no reason to lick people up for false accusations of rape (or any crime) because they do not pose a material threat to the public so there is no need to segregate them. They do cause real harm but that harm can absolutely be quantified and justice would be better served by punishing false accusers with huge payments of damages whilst compensating victims with the same.

@Gronky

I've never heard of those other two men but Jay Cheshire had a long history of depression and poor mental health even prior to being accused.

We also don't know for sure that the accusation against him was false. All we know is that he was accused of rape but the girl withdrew her claim a few weeks later and he later committed suicide. That's pretty much all we know. We don't know why the girl withdrew her claim, we don't know whether she was lying or telling the truth and we certainly don't know why Jay Cheshire killed himself. For all we know his suicide might have had nothing or very little to do with the rape accusation and he may well have committed suicide regardless considering his prior history.

I wish people would just let him and his mother rest in peace tbh. Jay is no longer around to defend himself and the girl who accused him is certainly unable to defend herself publicly and share her side of the story. Two people are dead here and speculating is just crass and inappropriate.

biscuittime

Also, what about the (non-rapist) men? A man is much more likely to be raped than he is to be the subject of a false rape allegation, so the innocent majority of men are another demographic who would be disadvantaged by a punitive response to making an allegation. The only group who benefit are the rapists.

It's a hard question especially if you are the victim of a false accusation.

My family were devastated when I was 10 and my best friend made a false claim about my dad. It was horrific. The charges were dropped but I was old enough to know what happened and my mum had to explain things to me that I really shouldn't of know at that age. The worse thing was as my dad was arrested based on these charges, it was in the paper, all the parents in my school knew, all my parents so called friends knew and so many friends turned their backs on us. My dad and mum (as she worked with children) were pulled out of work.
We spent months of worry not knowing what was going to happen.

It turned out this girls mum had made her make the false accusations, she was mentally unstable and had lots of issues. At the age of 10 it had a massive impact on me and my family and on a personal level I lost my best friend that would do everything with me.

I wouldn't of wanted her to go to jail, but yes I wish her mum was punished for the false claims

Only if there is evidence that they 100% lied and were malicious.

Ie: phone messages from the victim stating she did it to frame him, maybe she described a tattoo and it was not there, perhaps there was a witness which shows the victim was willing.

Of course all of the above reasons are all muddied if the woman is extremely intoxicated.

ruin an innocent man, his whole life and reputation. He could lose his family, friends and effect his career

I'm not saying this isn't true. But although I hear it claimed a lot I have never seen any evidence of it. The men I know in rl who are 'known' to have engaged in sexually abusive behaviour toward female juniors etc seem professionally and socially untouchable. Do people really lose families, careers etc over false allegations?

Sorry im going out now so wont be able to make any comments for a little while

Very tragic cases, especially the first one with the mother

Devastating for the families concerned

(And obviously the family of the accusers who seemto be getting the blame for their deaths... )

All committed suicide after they were falsely accused of rape

Jay cheshire - allegation withdrawn, no evidence im aware that it was a false accusation

Ross Bulloch - police found no case to answer...woman not charged...no evidence im aware of that it was DEFINITELY false

Thomas klocke- no evidence that classmate was lying

I am more than happy to agree that the stress of being accused led to those mens deaths and its a very great shame that they felt it was the only way out

I am also happy to agree that there MIGHT have been false accusations

But out of those three two without question are no where near being a criminal conviction

And as far as i can see no evidence as to the second

If it gets proven that she lied or she confesses to lying about being raped, I think she should get some kind of prison sentence yes.

Think about it like this, she could ruin an innocent man, his whole life and reputation. He could lose his family, friends and effect his career. It also effects how rape cases are taken seriously and false claims use up resources that could be used for a real rape case. Also a prison sentence could stop others from doing the same thing, a deterrent in a sense.

If it's not proven she lied or confesses to lying, then that's another ball game. Either there's sufficient evidence or there isn't. Just because a man gets found innocent based on a lack of evidence, doesn't mean he's innocent. Same visa versa where there could be evidence due to consensual sex but there was no rape committed.

Think if a woman or man lies about being raped, you've also got to look at reasons behind it also. If it was solely to be malicious than you have to suggest there has to be some kind of mental illness surely? I just don't understand how someone could lie about a thing like that so maybe that's why I assume some kind of illness would be involved.

There are all sorts of crimes that are statistically very rare, doesn't mean we can't talk about them.

But we don't, do we? We talk about this constantly. And I can't actually fathom a non-misogynistic reason why it comes up all the time.