Why do women keep apologising?

Its all so pervasive isn't it.

This may seem silly but I was deeply affected as a teen by a scene in Captain Newman, M.D. The psychiatrist explains to the orderly that when dealing with patients you should state your beliefs instead of what you think because they can argue with what you think but not what you believe.
I watched men use that tactic in political discussions on the news and was appalled

Still at it aren't they thebewilderness, with believing they are actual women etc.

I find that men are better at saying 'I think x'. Even if they don't apologise for having an opinion
No. Men just say what they think. Even if it's bollocks! Women say "I think.." and then state an opinion.

The charming stumble bum pretense? When I saw that film I thought, no wonder your wife saw through you.

It’s a British thing too, but deffo conditioning- it’s like excusing yourself for having a view you think may be contrary to the one the person your speaking to might hold. It makes me think of the film Notting Hill where we are all supposed to be floppy haired agreeable types when I’m writing this! Ive got to stop saying it now- I’m just gonna keep having visions of 90’s Hugh grant when I say or hear it.

Unpacking the conditioning is hard work and sometimes it is easier to go along to get along. I preface my speculative remarks sometimes with 'I could be wrong'. That is as much as I am prepared to give away.
This may seem silly but I was deeply affected as a teen by a scene in Captain Newman, M.D. The psychiatrist explains to the orderly that when dealing with patients you should state your beliefs instead of what you think because they can argue with what you think but not what you believe.
I watched men use that tactic in political discussions on the news and was appalled.
What does that have to do with anything? How we talk has everything to do with everything. I was 16 and that was the first tool I was given to start the unpacking of the man made myths I had been conditioned to accept.

There are only very limited circumstances when it is appropriate to take responsibility for things you did not do and mistakes you did not make. It is a habit we need to break and has the extra advantage of teaching people to hear women when we speak.

Excellent start. Excellent. Now how he reacts will tell you a lot

Some of it is cultural. Brits of both sexes tend to apologise a lot - but women do it more on balance.

Oh and Ladybirds is right about the menopause thing although I personally found that I had to get a few years after it to stop giving a toss. By 70 I had really cracked it and am officially an old crone. 'Tis wonderful.

Mrsdoyles

Menopause does a lot for assertiveness, I think

raided by TRAs and MRAs, not 'raised'

I have been thinking

I think that this is one of the reasons people find Feminism Chat a bit bracing when they first come on. People on here are often further along the line in learning to be unapologetic in their views and statements. So that can seem unusual and challenging. And occasionally, women who come on here for the first time and are very apologetic can either put people's hackles up or their suspicions. We get raised by MRAs and TRA who pretend to be women by first using this hesitant 'schtick' at first

Oh wow, I feel like I've found my thread. I am a terrible people pleaser and I hate it.
I was in a job and one year at our Christmas office party we had these joke awards, 'Most Likely To' that kind of thing, so my colleagues were getting things like 'Most Organised' 'Office Feeder' 'GOT Expert' I got 'Most Likely to Say Sorry'. I was devestated, others thought it was a funny joke but it made me realise how it holds me back socially and in my career.
I'm trying to do it less and I will look out for that book you recommended Ladybirds but 40yrs of conditioning are hard to break aren't they. For me I think it's a lack of confidence in myself and my abilities, I have to keep telling myself that I am good enough and wothwhile.
It's really sad isn't it.

My DH isn’t white British (English? Are the English particularly bad at this?) and I really struggle to pick apart which bits of our differing attitudes are cultural and which are sexist. Stupid things like if I serve puddling, I’ll always take the dodgy broken slice for myself - he won’t. It’s inconsequential really, except that it isn’t if DD copies me and is deferential whilst DS copies DH and isn’t.

Yes. I'm trying to stop myself apologising for when I disagree with a man. Men my generation often think a woman is being rude to disagree and I don't see why I should continue to bolster that delusion, especially when we're mustering counter-arguments and fresh evidence.

Because when we don't make the extra effort to be gentle we're called 'aggressive' and 'shrill' or 'bitchy' or 'emotional'.

We are trained to do it. It's hard to train yourself out of. I write a comment, then go back and reread it and edit out all the bits where I'm apologizing, asking for permission, or downplaying my own opinion.

The latter is really common too, i tend to say "I'm not sure, but in my experience I think that..." and then I go back and reread it and think to myself "if you're so unsure of yourself why are you talking at all? You do know that you have something worth saying, so why are you scared to act like it?"

I find myself apologising for things which are absolutely not my fault to try and appease people - such as delays at airports, things not working, traffic jams. As soon as the other person starts to show annoyance I start apologising, then they normally get annoyed and tell me to stop apologising, then I apologise more for apologising... stems for some fairly screwed up parenting, in my case. I feel responsible for other people's feelings even when I'm absolutely and clearly not. Then I feel utterly pathetic and useless for apologising when I should be more assertive (and generally am). I hate this facet of my personality. It drives DH crackers too, although he understands I can't really help it (and he doesn't try to use it or provoke it - fortunately I managed to avoid falling into the trap of ending up with a clone of a shite parent).

Not sure if it's also partly a female socialisation thing?

You end up saying something clearly and politely and because you haven’t prefaced it with “I’m terribly sorry, but could I suggest...? I’m probably wrong, etc, etc” people act as though you’ve slapped them in the face.

Yes! I find this. You get accused (overtly or otherwise) of being bolshy, bossy, argumentative, a bloody difficult woman etc. A man saying the same thing would be decisive, assertive, showing leadership etc - respected, not derided.

Even worse if you state things as facts rather than ‘just’ your opinion; “This is unacceptable” rather than “I think this is unacceptable” (the ‘right’ way for a woman to say it would be “I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is acceptable”, maybe with a few more conditional/couching words in there).

We’re conditioned to soften, soothe, and generally not challenge and acquiesce. Heaven forbid we have opinions.

I think it's a British thing. Men do this a lot too. Your example of one man doesn't prove anything.
Canadians joke about themselves apologising a lot too.
Perhaps women are socialised to do it a little more, but so many men begin a sentence with "I'm sorry, but", I can't say I notice that women do it more.

The thing is, I don’t. Not sure why - girls school effect maybe? And it can be very tricky. You end up saying something clearly and politely and because you haven’t prefaced it with “I’m terribly sorry, but could I suggest...? I’m probably wrong, etc, etc” people act as though you’ve slapped them in the face.

auntethel

There's a good book called A Woman In Your Own Right; Assertiveness and You. A quick read, it helps you understand and overcome different communication styles

I have also noticed that when you apologise when you've done nothing wrong , it weakens you. People don't respect you for your lack of aggression; they think you are in the wrong.