Breastfeeding, women's bodies and feminism

In all honesty, I'm a bit at the 'important' jobs thing. How about changing the system so that 'plum' jobs and being able to feed human beings exclusively from our bodies aren't mutually exclusive? How about seeing the unique biological role that women have in the rearing of children as something that should be accommodated by notions of 'important'?

OutComeTheWolves

Exactly. That's exactly my experience and the conclusion I came to. My 'failure' to BF my first made me depressed. It blighted the first weeks of his life

What next, we shouldn't be pregnant either as that's not equal?

Oh, I think you might be onto something.

Surely we should be encouraging science to hurry up with synthetic wombs, so babies can be grown in tanks and fed superior new I-can't-believe-its-not-breast-milk™ and then we'll be able to do with the troublesome, category of woman all together, make everybody male.

Equality at last, hurrah!!

FFS.

What a load of bullshit - women are biologically designed to breastfeed and men aren't. Men & women can have equal responsibility for a child but don't have to have the same role.

What next, we shouldn't be pregnant either as that's not equal?

So because we have some success with antibiotics, we should be pressing research companies into creating breast milk alternatives that are as good as / better than breast milk so that women can all become C Suite execs, judges and politicians? Is that what you are saying?

Well, I'll leave the educated middle classes to work out a way to circumvent biology so they can pursue the plum jobs and get back to trying to help the uneducated working class women feed their babies with support and advice then. FFS.

That argument doesn’t stack up given low bf rates.

agree that your friend deserved a ticking off for mansplaining!

I breastfed my first three. First one went very well. Second one I had a breast cancer scare so weaned onto formula earlier than I would have liked, but thems the breaks. Third one, my goodness it was awful. Baby wouldn't stay longer than a minute, failed to thrive, I'm ashamed to say by the end of months and months I was profoundly depressed and I utterly resented my baby. Because I had at least one successful feeding experience, I think it was assumed I wouldn't have any problems and the support just didn't exist. By the time baby four came along, I had already 'decided' to formula feed from the start, because I just couldn't face that awful, guilt inducing feeling of being unable to do something supposedly so basic, so vital for the well being of my child and ending up actually disliking the baby because of it.

So my 'choice' for formula wasn't really a positive thing, and it would have a hell of a lot more feminist had I been properly supported during baby number three's feeding.

None of this is simple to solve, unfortunately for the motivational poster makers of the policy world. Investing in education and support seems to me to be expensive and unlikely, so I guess we'll just have another twenty years of wagging fingers and stats.

Bloody hospital, bloody nurses. That was 1969.

Meanwhile in 2005 I was sneered at by nurses on high dependency for asking for a pump so I could keep my supply up while my baby was desperately ill and unable to feed. I had SO much help from the local support group but the so-called baby friendly hospital could barely work the machine. This is what enrages me about the whole thing - it's a total lottery as to whether you get the help and information you need. Years later, I found I had a couple of IBCLCs amongst my friends and with their advice was able to signpost three women to private tongue tie services in totally different parts of the country. They'd all been told to either wait months or switch to formula.

I did manage to donate with the second baby. It took me months of 20ml a day sessions to crank out a litre, but I'm proud of it nevertheless. To those of you considering pumping, don't buy the hype from the manufacturers and don't plan your life around it. You don't know how it's going to work for you; try it but don't rely on it. You may get loads, you may not be suited to it. I pretty much had to donate anyway as neither of my two would go near a bottle!

I'd guess that different areas promoted or demonised FF in the 70s and 80s, just like now. My mum says she was seen as some sort of hippy for insisting on BF in the 70s, because FF was seen as some kind of wonderful, better than BM invention (and my mum is about as far away from being a hippy as you can possibly imagine!)

We have low rates of breastfeeding in this country, but it's very often not because mothers didn't want to BF, it's because when they ran into issues, the support they needed wasn't there, or they were given bad advice by HCPs with crap training on BFing.

Indeed. I was desperate to BF my daughter but the hospital staff scared the shit out of me by telling me that she was going to starve, as my supply was really low (obviously, had just given birth) and she was having issues latching. This was only like 12 hours after having her...

I have since found out that they need next to no colostrum, its not like they need ounces and ounces of it. But when the staff keep telling you that you are basically damaging your baby, you listen to them. My mum said it was probably because they wanted my bed, and they have to keep you in for longer if BFing as they need to make sure you can latch baby correctly and that too.

I 'chose' to formula feed after struggling with breast feeding in the first 24 hours. I recently read a FB post by a blogger I follow which I wholeheartedly agree with. She basically stated that the whole ff/bf debate is essentially a red herring that causes women to feel guilty about their choices and distracts from the lack of support available to women who want to continue breast feeding after their time in hospital. Ie it's not a real choice if the support isn't available.

I also agree that by downplaying the downsides you're essentially infantilising women. I went to a bfing class when I was pregnant with my first and the main message was that it won't hurt if you're doing it right. Out of all of the people in my circle who have had babies, myself included, all of us have wanted to give it a go, 2 of my friends took to it really easily, the rest of us have all encountered difficulties. Out of my friends who persevered many mentioned the effect it has on your mental health and how draining it can be.

In my opinion we need to see a huge shift in society's mentality starting with removing shame/guilt from the equation- I loved the pp's comparison with living in the city; a choice which is not perhaps best for your child's health but may be best for your family over all. Also, more honesty about the difficulties we might encounter during breast feeding. Finally and imo most importantly investment in support for new mothers. But hey that all seems like hard work, far easier to just keep it as another tool to keep women in their place.

I'm guessing it must have varied but it seems like neither are cases where the women made an informed choice that was respected.

Should add I had my next baby at home, even though I was high risk because of the previous birth. The idea that formula was the way in the 70s/80s is just not accurate.

Lass, older than 59, more like 70-80. Formula may well have been the right method but it wasn't much of a choice if they were told inaccurate things about breastfeeding.

I'm in that age group. When I had my first baby they kept you in hospital for a week+. You had to breast feed. I had a very long and difficult birth (4 days) and my baby was very sleepy and totally disinterested in feeding.

They wouldn't let me out of hospital because the baby wasn't feeding well and wouldn't consider a bottle under any circumstances.
I was actually told (I've never forgotten it). "Mother, if you don't get on with it (breast feeding) your baby is going to die." Nice. That's the sort of attitude that really helps - not. I persisted for weeks with a howling baby losing weight because bottle feeding was "wicked". I was actually told that by the HV. I finally gave up and thank God I did - my howling, starving baby finally thrived.

Bloody hospital, bloody nurses. That was 1969.

I think in a previous life I must have been a wet nurse - after a few weeks struggling to crack BF (prem baby, tiny mouth, fair skin), my supply kicked in properly and I could produce plenty more than was needed. I'd have happily donated it for longer (I donated some to the prem baby unit). I pumped almost from the start, because DC was prem and partially tube fed, so perhaps that helped

but we are now able to transcend biology using science

No. No we are not

I bf both my children until they were two and I didn't find it made the share of work unequal at all. My husband did virtually everything else, especially in the early stages, and even though I had non-sleeping babies he would take them from me every evening until about midnight so I could get a couple of hours solid sleep, then I'd pass them back to him about 5am every morning so I could catch up then as well. We truly did it 50/50 and I wouldn't have stood for anything less. Also, I didn't find it affected going back to work. I went back at 6 months and 5 months respectively and DC1 wouldn't take a bottle. However, we did manage to get him to take a little expressed milk out of a sippy cup so that was fine (and he just made up for it at night!) I have plenty of friends who ff but their husbands did bugger all so I think it's nothing to do with feeding method but a lot more to do with how much support you have, both from health professionals and partners. Anyone telling women what to do with their own bodies can fuck right off but I don't believe bf is anti-feminist at all. Better support for women's health generally would be beneficial, no matter how they feed, how they give birth etc.

I think some people produce way more by pumping than others to be fair. I can do enough for the odd bottle but would struggle to keep DD on breastmilk if I went back to work.

Quite a lot of women don’t find it inconvenient or difficult though.

I hate pumping but am always surprised how many people build up a ‘stash’ of frozen milk ‘just in case’ - it must be easy for them, and should be easy to donate as well.

I might be a uniquely shit/selfish person, but while I'd donate milk (if I could figure out the logistics) to an ill baby or a woman physically incapable of feeding I wouldn't donate if the vast majority of the milk went to babies whose mothers find it inconvenient and difficult (ie the vast majority of women who currently don't breastfeed) - I find it inconvenient and difficult, and donating would be even more so! I just think donation is only ever going to be viable if we increase breastfeeding rates to the point that all women who can do - and I think that would be very difficult, and I don't even know whether it's desirable.

I hated breastfeeding- I hated it from day one. I think I struggled for about 3 months. It never got any better, hurt and made me feel physically sick.

I could not care less whether women like painting disapproves of my unfeminist choice to stop. My own mental and phyisical health was more important. Given my son is 28 and the last time he had to see any medical professional for anything was to get his MMR I am unconvinced I failed him by giving up.

I don't disapprove of your decision, nor do I think it was unfeminist or that you failed your child. Me disapproving of you FF would be as ridiculous as you telling me I'd failed my children by bringing them up in a city, where pollution is a risk to their health. We make choices about our parenting for a multitude of reasons, and taking the route of optimum health isn't always achievable - or even desirable - give the factors we're dealing with in our own lives.

I am sorry to hear you had such a shit time BFing though. As you started it, and put up with it being so bad for 3 months, imagine you wanted BF? I'm sorry it wasn't easier for you, it sounds like a horrendous experience and I don't blame you one bit!

But, I can't help wondering if you might have had a different experience given better support. (e.g. perhaps your baby had undiagnosed tongue tie - it shouldn't hurt for 3 months - or perhaps there was some other reason). There's pretty good evidence to show that what stops women BFing is lack of decent support, not lack of the intention to.

It's why the "breast is best " message is a crude tool, and one which people are now starting to move away from, thankfully. Repeatedly bashing mothers over the head with a message that says, basically "breast is best, do this for your child - else you're failing them!!" isn't that effective. It's aimed at getting mothers BFing at the start - but without putting in the necessary resources to support BFing longer term. It isn't a great recipe for success IMO and it's not surprising it makes mothers feel resentful. There's only so many times a campaign can tell us that something is good for our child - if circumstances mean we're unable to do it, or it's difficult to, telling us again and again what we already know, isn't actually very helpful and possibly even counter productive.

A testimonial from the webpage humanmilkfoundation.org/donating/ - amazing stuff

One of the hardest things about my diagnosis of breast cancer while I was pregnant was being told that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed my son due to needing to continue with chemotherapy after the birth. I enjoyed breastfeeding my daughter for 18 months and had to stop feeding her to be able start chemotherapy. It was very upsetting that I wouldn't get to have that same breastfeeding relationship with my son. Part of me felt guilty that I wasn't able to give him my breast milk to provide the best start for him, especially after having undergone chemotherapy whilst pregnant with him. The donor milk I received help take that guilt away and was a blessing that has made my cancer diagnosis that much easier to cope with. He was able to obtain many of the important benefits of breast milk and I was able to feel like I was doing all I could to ensure he has had the best start in life. He has been jumping up the percentiles in his weight through being fed exclusively donor milk and is clearly thriving. The donor milk has not only helped my baby but also helped me emotionally deal with the circumstances. I can't thank all those lovely women out there enough for donating milk to the milk bank and am so grateful to them and all the team that work to ensure the milk is processed safely and delivered for my baby. It has been an absolute blessing at a very stressful time. We hope that following my recovery that we can fundraise for the Human Milk Foundation to raise awareness for this fantastic charity that has helped us so much as such a difficult time.