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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal question about consultation

53 replies

theodora1972 · 23/08/2018 13:49

Hi, I'm trying to fill out the GRA consultation. I've looked at the fair play for women guidance, and at the GRA and EA. Despite over 20 years in law I'm struggling with this impenetrable legislation. So, here is a question for anyone familiar with the legislation.

Let's say Amber was born Steve, a man. Also, let's say self Id has triumphed. Amber does not have surgery or take hormones. But she lives as a woman, in that she calls herself Amber and sometimes wears skirts heels and make up. And she has a GRC. She goes to her local swimming pool, which astonishingly is run by feminists. Poor Amber is told to take her willy out of the ladies changing room. So, how does the law apply?

My reading of the EA and GRA is that paras 26 and 27 of schedule 3 to the EA have no role here. None at all. This is because Amber is female for their purposes, by virtue of section 9 of the GRA. But nor does para 28, because Amber does not come within section 7 of the EA - remember, no surgery, no hormones, all she's done is put on a skirt and some lippy (contrast the wording of section 7- 'a process for the purpose of reassigning sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex'). So, the pool has no defence whatsoever. They can't rely on the 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim' defence in the Schedule 3 exceptions because it is irrelevant. This is simply a case, for the purposes of the law, where a female (Amber) has been excluded from female facilities.

Is this right? If so I think this is an even worse outcome for women than that suggested by FPFW in their commentary on the consultation.

But, is there case law that would bring Amber within section 7? Is there anything to suggest this is the case?

Apologies if this is obvious.

OP posts:
Cascade220 · 23/08/2018 14:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VickyEadie · 23/08/2018 14:22

OldCrone

That's my interpretation, which makes all the claims that the 'protections remain in place' nonsense and meaningless.

If self-id comes in, ANY man can get into women's spaces - including people like the man on another thread who just got 22 years for appalling abuse of a child.

We all know the lengths predators and sex offenders are willing to go to to get at their victims - this will be a feckin' walk in the park for them.

OldCrone · 23/08/2018 14:08

My interpretation is that self-ID (everyone is free to choose their legal sex, by simply making a statutory declaration) would mean that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act would be meaningless.

If any man could self-identify as female and acquire a female birth certificate, there would be no way (in legal terms) to distinguish between someone born female and someone born male who had changed his birth certificate.

I have no legal training whatsoever, though, so I don't know if my interpretation is correct - although I posted something similar a while back, and someone with legal expertise said they though I was right.

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