Have we petitioned Stonewall directly?

I'm neither LGB nor live in the UK, but has anyone thought of setting another organisation that genuinely represents your interests? You did before, could you not do it again, now that Stonewall has been hijacked?

I think it is a great idea.
It would be useful to have people included in the LGBT community (I’m one) who feel marginalised by the way they operate such a totalitarian view re the trans umbrella.

#NoDebate is so incredibly dangerous.
Saying things like “you want to deny trans people their existence” if you say they don’t have the same experiences as you, is so offensive and puts up barriers where there needn’t be any.

I think it's good idea and worth doing OP. At best, if they engage, it might lead to some sensible, constructive discussion. At worst they refuse and we have a public record of at least trying to engage in some rational debate but being denied it.

OP I appreciate your constructive approach but I think Stonewall genuinely DGAF for women or for LESBIANS.

Which is pretty fucking horrifying when you think who helped to build Stonewall into the household-name supercharity that it is now. Not to mention Stonewall sticking to Stonewall’s legal charitable objectives.

I think there is nothing to lose by calling Stonewall’s bluff- women do want debate about their concerns, though Ruth Hunt’s response seems to be #nodebate.

So you would be positively pointing to the open door to dialogue. But I’d agree with the PP who have zero hope for any meaningful engagement from Stonewall.

Stonewall know very well already what gender critical women think because they are active on social media, they know full well what women are saying about their concerns- but Stonewall DGAF.

Stonewall condemned the lesbians protesting AT PRIDE about the erasure of lesbians by the TRA agenda. Stonewall said Get the L Out shouldn’t have been allowed to ask the questions they asked because saying those things made trans people feel ‘unsafe’

Totally ignoring and denying and turning the tables on the concerns of the lesbians who feel so undermined in THEIR community that they bravely stepped up and protested at the PRIDE parade. DARVO.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/09/stonewall-slams-pride-in-london-saying-organisers-had-a-duty-to-act-and-protect-trans-people/

Stonewall’s intolerance and hostility to these women’s concerns was reflected by other organisations like London Pride who were rounded on by Stonewall and others for letting the women protest, then issued a very aggressively-worded statement condemning the ‘vile’ protest and saying this kind of speaking out should be ‘stamped out’

To me this kind of inflammatory language gets close to inciting violence.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/08/pride-in-london-condemns-anti-trans-protest-as-vile-says-we-are-sorry/

Basically those reactions are confirming everything that Get the L out are warning against. Stonewall are utterly complicit in that.

So I think yes if you want to offer a dialogue the absolutely do so, but it would be important for the record (and for anyone not familiar with these issues) that any open letter emphasises that women have always been open to talking about their concerns, but are being shut down and condemned when they do try to air them. The door has always been open. These are not two, equally pig headed, equally not listening sides. No gender critical woman has EVER sought to silence or threaten, doxx or get anyone sacked for asking questions nor has ever called for #nodebate.

I think that discussing their rather bizarre definition of transgender is worth the time if they are beginning to see the damage their umbrella doing their credibility.

No point going to a butcher's shop for bread.

They will use any approach as an opportunity to refuse to dialogue with "transphobes"(sic)

Everything we say is dismissed as transphobia no matter how reasonable. We don't have much to lose here so we might as well say what we think and feel without trying to appease trans activists.

I suggest we say it politely but with absolute clarity.

My advice would be for every lesbian or bi woman who can do so safely to speak up for her rights and the rights of other women, and not be cowed or tied in linguistic knots out of fear of appearing transphobic. If you go down that route you will never be able to say what you think or feel because the trans activists will pick and pick and pick at your language until you have no words left. Nothing will be good enough except silence or capitulation.

Great idea. I think an open letter to Ruth Hunt would be a good format with a petition to support and add numbers for those who can't sign with their rl names.

A public request to talk publicly to GC, radical feminists and all other interested people against self-ID should be put to Stonewall. They will tell you to fuck off, you have evidence you did your bit to a public that prodominitly don't agree with self-ID and who looks reasonable?

Stonewall held a series of discussions prior to becoming trans-inclusive with people of all different views including rad fems. They are not unaware of the differing views out there. The person who chaired those talks has now left but if you genuinely want to engage it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, particularly if you feel you speak for a large proportion of LGB people. My advice would be to think very carefully about language used in any correspondence so it isn’t dismissed as transphobia.

"Shush girlies, the boys and real women are talking"

Agree. They will tell us to fuck off but it's not a good look.

I think it's an excellent idea - but I have a jingly jangly inkling it would be rebuffed by Stonewall. Having said that, it's not got a downside beyond that; if they respond and talk, all good. If they rebuff and shut down, a public request to neutral discussion will have been, er, stonewalled. Not a good look for them. Nowt to lose at this stage.

seconded!

I think this is a brilliant idea.