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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Responses to Scottish Govt GRA consultation now online

131 replies

howonearthdidwegethere · 22/08/2018 12:10

www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/law/17867/gender-recognition-review/review-of-gender-recognition-act-2004-list-of-orga/published-responses-from-organisations

Not sure what the deal is with individual responses. None published. Maybe the SG don't publish them as a matter of course or everyone opted not to have them in the public domain.

OP posts:
ChattyLion · 23/08/2018 07:28

socio, bd Flowers
pencils, alice thank you for your insightful posts.

It’s bloody terrifying isn’t it. The threat to children from third parties intervening to advocate for their transition (WTAF?! Shock). Vital services for women who have survived rape fucked over by men. The threat to wives in straight marriages who will be too afraid to say transing is unreasonable behaviour and have to stay married for two years. Human rights charities fucking over women and children’s rights in their policies. It’s shocking.

I can always tell when trans people have written the consultation or their response to it because they use that bullshit argument about a trans person’s privacy being breached if they are ‘outed’ as trans. It’s all part of the AGP fantasy of the ease of their own transition, the reductive belief that feminine clothes are all that makes up a woman, and the strongly-held narcissistis fantasy of their own ‘passing’ which is part of the AGP. It’s why they often say so confidently that they feel like a sexy teenage girl etc etc Hmm

Very very rare that IRL everyone is not thinking at first glance, even from a still photo ‘oh, OK, that is a trans person’.

Let alone meeting that trans person IRL, seeing them walking, talking with them. It’s obvious to people but we know the correct reaction is politeness and acceptance because we are not dicks about it. But it’s not healthy to have no boundaries or unconditional acceptance when it damages the rights of women and children.

We are hardwired as humans to recognise sex differences. Babies and kids can do it. These abilities don’t go away because of a change of clothes, hair or make up. It is not kind to pretend they do.

As an argument made by TRAs, it’s also (yet another) MASSIVE appropriation of the experience of lesbian and gay people. lesbian and gay people have historically (and also presently) ACTUALLY had their privacy, or safety very much endangered by being outed as gay.

Making it ironic that like with the Get the L Out lesbian protesters at London Pride this year, the response of people high up in various LGBT+ charities is to threaten to report the women to their employers to get the women sacked- thus potentially outing those women to their employer, as being lesbians. Who gives them the right to do that?

Also in case people have concerns- Scotland has its own regulator of charities, (like the charity Commission in England and Wales). So for anyone concerned about the anti women and anti children action of Scottish charities: please let them know.

Charities can’t legally abandon women and girls if those are their named beneficiaries of the charity. Nor can charities just decide not to do safeguarding any more if they have responsibility for young people or any vulnerable person in their provision of services. The OSCR will investigate reports of concerns.

www.oscr.org.uk
We are the independent Regulator and registrar for Scotland’s charities, including community groups, religious charities, schools, universities, grant-giving charities, and major care providers.

www.oscr.org.uk/about-charities/raise-a-concern

Mail: [email protected]
Twitter:@ScotCharityReg
Facebook: Scottish Charity Regulator

Spikypants · 23/08/2018 07:11

This is how easily small organisations can lose funding. This isn’t trans related but shows how catastrophic a loss of funding can be. And an organisation in today’s climate deemed to be ‘not trans inclusive’ would lose its funding within months.

mobile.twitter.com/StaffsWomensAid/status/1032252510403219456

Spikypants · 23/08/2018 04:31

This is all utterly terrifying. I have a wonderful, sweet gender non conforming son in primary school. He just likes playing with girls, experimenting with make up and hair styles and dressing up. He, and we, are clear that he is a boy but can do all of these things.

The thought of the trans cult getting their hooks into him and the thought that the state could actually involve themselves makes me want to move away from Scotland, it really does.

Wanderabout · 23/08/2018 02:00

The other thing that rings big alarm bells Happity is the lack of women survivors voices.

If 'nothing about us without us' applies to trans people why does it not also apply to women? What consultation has been done with women?

Survivors are contacting the organisations who are supposed to support them, to beg and plead their case that single sex services are not erased so women who are deeply traumatised from male violence can use them:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3340863-Open-letter-from-survivors-of-male-violence

Wanderabout · 23/08/2018 01:53

Can you get the impact assessments on FOI requests?

Yes.

Wanderabout · 23/08/2018 01:52

Happity

Yes the threat to funding is real and many in the sector are too frightened to speak up. Here is an anonymous article from a professional in the sector explaining more:

womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

There are some who I think genuinely believe Self-ID is the way forward.

But many with impressive experience of front line services have grave concerns.

What worries me is a culture in which this cannot be openly discussed. That rings huge alarm bells for me.

Happityhap · 23/08/2018 01:14

I know nothing about Government funding of organisations.
Is it, in fact, likely that their funding would stop if they didn't spout what they're expected to in this consultation?

Or do they just fear it might stop?

Or maybe they even believe what they're saying.

Happityhap · 23/08/2018 01:07

But they will lose vital funding if they are seen to speak out.

Is that a variation of "just following orders"?

BraveAndStunning · 23/08/2018 00:55

Parents not happy about the installation of gender neutral toilets in two Scottish schools.

"Cllr MacDonald wrote to the council and received a response East Renfrewshire Council’s Head of Education (Equality and Equity) Janice Collins.

She said that the move was made on guidance from the Scottish Government and that an impact assessment was conducted."

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3104261/furious-parents-renfrewshire-schools-gender-neutral-toilets/

Can you get the impact assessments on FOI requests?

Wanderabout · 23/08/2018 00:24

Sorry this was original tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/DemocracyMs/status/1032405848314671108

Wanderabout · 23/08/2018 00:23

Thanks Alice

The attempts to ride roughshod through safeguarding practice are wrong, wrong wrong.

Just seen this on twitter highlighting what is effectively online grooming behaviour (whether or not that is the tweeter's intention I don't know).

mobile.twitter.com/translynch/status/1031970606567378946

The risk of undisclosed secrets behind a parent's back to non family members being abused seems like a far more likely risk than a parent not agreeing to a young child's transition causing that child harm.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 22/08/2018 23:52

bd67th and socio, I'm so sorry. I can only offer

FlowersFlowers
🌻🌻🌻🌻
🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷

And a dose of sodding b***ds you'll never take our
🚺🚺🚺

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 22/08/2018 23:48

I suppose there are ways they infiltrate. I was fine too, until I dug deeper. It's sold as being about freedom, about minority rights. Lovely. Without being too specific, my friend (male) thought it all a force for equality. Until some specifics were introduced.

Wonderabout, I'll try to dig out the Edinburgh council comment. I know Maggie Mellon referred to it in her herald article. I think the NP trials proved evidence isn't a thing they are overly concerned about. I'd hoped it was done but apparently they are looking to push it through despite the judgement.

bd67th · 22/08/2018 23:38

sociopathsunited Flowers

I have an indentation/dimple in my introitus from where my rapist tore me. Every time I get thrush, the bastard yeasts set up shop in that dimple and take weeks to kill.

The penis is a weapon and rape hurts more than a woman's feelings, which is why Germaine Greer can FOTTOSOFAWSGTFOSM with her idea that rape should be treated like common assault.

The penis is a weapon, no matter what gender identity its owner has.

PowerPlayed · 22/08/2018 23:30

I spoke to a lawyer - a fricking lawyer! - at a dinner party last month who was clueless

I'm surprised to hear that given the way in which the pro self ID views have infiltrated the judiciary and CPS. My judge friends tell me theyvevreceived extensive training on this matter and most are well and truly brainwashed Sad

Wanderabout · 22/08/2018 23:19

I know that Edinburgh council has suggested that in cases of children aged 12 or yonger there is the potential for NP involvement if the parents are not cooperating. It's sickening.

WTAF?

Where has this all come from?

There is zero evidence base for this.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 22/08/2018 22:41

Pencils, I know that Edinburgh council has suggested that in cases of children aged 12 or yonger there is the potential for NP involvement if the parents are not cooperating. It's sickening.

Lefthanddown · 22/08/2018 22:38

I've just read the Children's and Young People's Commissioner response, there answer to Q5-9 is chilling. They appear to believe in line with the EA and Yogikarta Principles children from 12 yrs should be able to identify their gender, though it appears they would support younger children being given the ability to trans. They also highlight that going the same way as Ireland and stipulating 16 for transition, would probably contravene the child's right.

Fuck, I can't believe this organisation has children's best interests at heart.

OldCrone · 22/08/2018 22:36

The consultation for England and Wales is still open until 19th October. Like the Scottish one, this is open to everyone, so it's worth responding even if you're in Scotland as any changes will affect the whole of the UK.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

Threads here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3318003-Bringing-your-MUST-DO-WOMENS-RIGHTS-consultations-together-with-links-and-timelines-thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3295953-GRA-consultation-is-live-Lets-get-reading

PencilsInSpace · 22/08/2018 22:29

Fucking hell the named person stuff inteacting with this is terrifying. That's an aspect I had never thought of.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 22/08/2018 22:26

And dog, even though they've been told that NP shite (sorry slipping) is potentially illegal, they are threatening to invoke it if parents don't want to mutilate their children.

Cailleachian · 22/08/2018 22:19

I just read Orkney Island Councils submission.

On transing children, they support the parental application model (dangerous, especially for younger children)...but they go further and suggest a named person to provide consent if transition is seen to be "in the best interests of the child".

This is a very scary suggestion - a named person could apply for a child to be legally transition a child against their wishes and the wishes of their parents.

littlbrowndog · 22/08/2018 21:58

We had that named person pack of drivel which meant the state never believed that parents could actually , actually look after their own kid#

So the state has to take ove4. Imagine no5 trusting th3 parents in ur own country not to look after their own children

Just not trusting the parents in u4 own country

Do I live in North Korea ?

Now they slipped this one in under the radar

My country my disgrace

PencilsInSpace · 22/08/2018 21:56

I spoke to a lawyer - a fricking lawyer! - at a dinner party last month who was clueless.

This says it all - NOBODY should feel stupid for missing what's been going on. There's a helluva lot that's been brought in quietly, behind the scenes, under the radar.

No more. Women are watching now - more women every day. And women can see.

howonearthdidwegethere · 22/08/2018 21:49

Every time I tell someone about it, they're gobsmacked, had no idea whatsoever. It's despicable.

I'm firing off emails to elected reps all the time and meeting them whenever I can. I know a few others in my own circle who are doing the same and, although it's like wading through treacle (Christ, some local councillors are dim), we are getting some small breakthroughs.

If their inboxes fill up with people querying this stuff, they HAVE to spend time replying (and deciding how to reply). Parents are speaking up. I saw this piece in The Herald today.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/16590172.parents-anger-over-new-gender-neutral-toilets-in-primary-schools/

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