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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I easily confused or is this a confusing article?

66 replies

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 22:46

[[www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nonbinary-period-menstruation_us_5b75ac1fe4b0182d49b1c2ed

I am a nonbinary trans menstruator

What does this mean? My understanding of non binary means they do not subscribe to gender stereotypes associated with either males or females. Fine. But then how are they a trans person? What are they transitioning to if they don’t recognise gender?

Though I now can name these increasing anxieties as “dysphoria,” a term used to describe the common experience trans people often feel because our bodies do not match our gender,

Ok, but this person identifies as non binary- so how can their body not match their gender if they don’t have one?

On the flip side, using the men’s restroom means that I have to pray that I’m not already leaking when I walk in there and figure out the best ways to keep myself safe while discreetly tending to my period.

I would be interested in knowing why they feel the need to take extra measures to keep themselves safe in the men’s bathrooms. What is the risk they are talking about that doesn’t exist in the women’s bathrooms?

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TransplantsArePlants · 22/08/2018 04:32

Lucky that traditional gender coding of pinks, purples and flowers doesn't bother any 'cis-women' because everyone knows we all just love that sort of shit

Yes.

Surely all this 'there are 70 genders'= I feel different from you? I have my own thoughts, feelings and personality. No Shit Sherlock

ShamelesslyPlacemarking · 22/08/2018 03:39

When I run out of products, I have to go looking for a pad, tampon or even a cup that’s not awash in the traditionally feminine coding of pinks, purples and flowers

Lucky that traditional gender coding of pinks, purples and flowers doesn't bother any 'cis-women' because everyone knows we all just love that sort of shit.

LassWiADelicateAir · 22/08/2018 03:26

When I run out of products, I have to go looking for a pad, tampon or even a cup that’s not awash in the traditionally feminine coding of pinks, purples and flowers

The most famous tampon brand , Tampax, is blue/green and has never had flowers on it. Kotex is very dark purple and/ or black with white. Some of the packaging on google images on Kotex actually looks masculine to me. Lillets are in multiple primary / fluorescent colours including blue, yellow and green. Own brand value brands are usually plain white wrappers.

WomblingWoman · 22/08/2018 02:08

BD 👏

Great observation between physical reality and internal angst.

Using the word angst but really mean self indulgent, egotistical and narcissistic delusion.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2018 01:56

I've not read the thread properly, but (having been inspired by seeing 'genderfuck')I think I've worked out a gender identifier which might suit many MNers:
GenderFOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 01:39

As the author has hinted with their comments about the men's loos, you can't identify out of being female and vulnerable to rape, and yet they lack the insight to join the dots and realise that their principal problem, as a female person, is male violence and by deliberately trying to resemble a male they compromise their own access to female-only safe spaces.

Very good point!

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bd67th · 22/08/2018 01:37

My breasts feel like incongruous growths that do not belong on my body

Try being a 34GG. My breasts get in the way, bras cost a fortune and hurt no matter who fits them, clothing options are ridiculously limited, any kind of exercise is uncomfortable or outright painful, and they feel like some kind of cruel practical joke instead of functioning body parts. The way men treat me because of my huge breasts is appalling and I've still got a scar from when, after my rape, I slashed my left breast with a razor blade. Enby snowflakes aren't the only people who hate their bodies and hate how people (usually men) treat them because of said bodies. As the author has hinted with their comments about the men's loos, you can't identify out of being female and vulnerable to rape, and yet they lack the insight to join the dots and realise that their principal problem, as a female person, is male violence and by deliberately trying to resemble a male they compromise their own access to female-only safe spaces.

This author is complaining about how menstrual products are all pastels and pink and butterflies, well guess what, I was objecting to the pinkification of female-specific items before you were born. You can't even buy safety boots to fit women that don't have pink on. As for pad packaging causing dysphoria, come back when some of the pad brands bring you out in a vulval rash and then we can talk about limited sanpro choices.

In short, I see the author's self-created problems and I raise them my externally-iimposed ones.

RabbitsAreTasty · 22/08/2018 01:28

I suspect the women with the young daughters doing the alleged ushering out are doing it with staring and glaring not actual words.

Given how similar that person's appearance is to many lesbians I know, I would bet a coffee on hostile attitudes being down to homophobia and if more of a stare, then just interest in a non-conforming person (especially if done by a child).

Maybe it is the children being ushered out rapidly as they start asking awkward questions within earshot of the clearly uncomfortable gender non-conforming person.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 22/08/2018 00:58

Unpopular opinion here. The writer did state that they did or do try using the women's toilet to use disposal facilities but were "ushered out" by other users. That must suck.

Especially as, judging by their photo, they would easily pass as female.

It's strange that transpeople who don't pass as female claim that they use women's loos without comment, yet some females who look like they could pass as women claim that they are told to leave. Confused

WomblingWoman · 22/08/2018 00:58

It's short for I'm an attention seeking twit.

I told DH I was non binary 30 mins ago.

He's agreed to self affirm me and take notes on the difference.

Apparently I'm basically still the same but already have a slight stench of entitlement. He's going to monitor it for scientific purposes.

For my part I feel fab. I'm free of the shackles of womanhood well apart from my pesky period involving cramps and very sore non breast things - can I call them chbreasts ?

ShamelesslyPlacemarking · 22/08/2018 00:56

@IfIWasABird

Well, the argument would be that there is a modern word-phrase that makes it clear, and that's 'cis woman'. Never mind that 'cis woman' apparently means exactly what 'woman' used to be understood to mean, and 'woman' now has no distinct meaning at all.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:53

Yes I’ve definitely been called that not! But it was accompanied with being told I was cisgender whether I believed it or not Grin

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:52

I had to google that heresy! Grin

They did say that gold, I wonder what they would do if they were “ushered out” of the Male toilets too. I wonder how many times that happened in the ladies toilets.

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NotMeOhNo · 22/08/2018 00:51

They must be the first trans person ushered out of a women's loo ever. I would be too scared to do that myself. Cf. The flasher in the Soho gym.

Or it didn't happen.

OP you are only allowed to be agender if you accept gender ideology. If you are agender and reject the religious idea of gendered souls then you are a terfy bigot, I believe.

goldopals · 22/08/2018 00:44

Unpopular opinion here. The writer did state that they did or do try using the women's toilet to use disposal facilities but were "ushered out" by other users. That must suck.

heresyandwitchcraft · 22/08/2018 00:43

OP - It appears you have cut the Gordian knot Smile

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:31

Et voila! Bloody autocorrect!

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:30

I don’t want to be agender. Can I self Identify out of it? I guess the rules are up to each individual so, yes! I can! Grin eh voila! I am no gender. None, zip, zero.

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jellyfrizz · 22/08/2018 00:28

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender?

Yes, it’s agender. Grin gender.wikia.com/wiki/Agender

BraveAndStunning · 22/08/2018 00:18

Basically they are trying to stealth boast that they consider themselves to be way more interesting than you, you boring vanilla fucker

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:17

See I do only define myself by sex. Which is woman. But apparently, that doesn’t mean what I think it means anymore and I can’t use woman to mean female. But also I can’t use female because that’s a gender too, apparently. So there is nothing I can use that indisputably tells people what I am.

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heresyandwitchcraft · 22/08/2018 00:12

LOL! I think you'll find that it's all more confusing, the more you look into it. It used to be somewhat simpler when everyone agreed there are two sexes (and trans theory said there were two "gender identities"). At some point, the "trans" idea started to encompass a whole spectrum of genders, and the number of genders only seems to be multiplying.
This is part of the reason why I became so gender-critical. What you need to know is that trans theory now basically says these gender identities should be considered to be more important than your biological sex... But the gender-identities themselves are impossible for anyone else to check, and many of them are VERY vaguely defined.

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender? confused I don’t want a gender. Can I just say that and people accept that I don’t and am not on any gender spectrum or umbrella? Or is that not allowed?

Trans theory would say that everyone has a gender identity. They would probably say you are "cis gender," which means you are your sex and you "identify with" the roles attached to that sex. In other words, if you are a female who says you're a woman, this means you identify with (on some level) the roles and expectations attached to "womanhood," such as wearing feminine clothing or behaving submissively.
Many feminists dispute all of this - vehemently. But trans theory will say you are "cis gender", unless you accidentally fall under the trans umbrella by being labelled "agender" (meaning your gender identity is that you don't have a gender)...
There have been many arguments on this board about this very subject.

Personally, I just define myself by my sex and I don't worry about anything else. I do wish more people were able to do that. It's really the only anchor we have in this "debate," because once you're only talking about gender, then things get very strange.

AbsintheFriends · 22/08/2018 00:08

Apparently, it’s easier to ask an entire community to undergo major surgery than for other folks to just stop gendering periods and let us menstruate in peace

I wanted to be sympathetic and understanding, I really did. BUT FFS.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:56

I think I’m even more confused than before. Thank you heresy for explaining and for the link. I think i’ll Need to read it a few times before I can understand it.

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender? Confused I don’t want a gender. Can I just say that and people accept that I don’t and am not on any gender spectrum or umbrella? Or is that not allowed?

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:51

So I'll plaster my face and name all over the internet advertising the fact that I menstruate

Dont forget the photo of me actually bleeding! Grin

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